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For some reason my local store/group has it in their heads that lookout sir is done AFTER saves because of the line where it says they are allocated an unsaved wound. Effectively rendering tough characters as unkillable bullet magnets (eg i can put a libby with a storm shield at the front of a unit of regular terminators and now its like they all have storm shields)

It seems to me by unsaved wound they mean a wound thats not had its save rolled for yet (or cannot be saved by that target). Am i right in saying you cant lookout sir a failed save off to another member of the squad right?

Depends if it's mixed armour saves.

If they're all the same, roll all saves then allocate unsaved wounds (and LoS any allocated to characters).

if they're different saves, allocate wounds first, and any that are allocated to a character get the LoS roll, after that, roll the saves.

With your example of Libby w/SS at the front; if you took say, 5 bolter wounds and 2 plasma wounds; your opponent makes you take the bolter wounds first, you can LoS! on a 2+ to pass them from your Libby to Terminators, then roll the saves. Then the plasma wounds are done in the same way (although you would not have to make the LoS; just allocate them to the Libby and take the saves.

LOS! Happens on allocation.
Same-save unit: roll saves then LOS!
Mixed-save unit: roll LOS! then saves.

Edit: only one save can ever be taken. You can't roll saves, LOS! Then roll saves on the new model.

What the other guys said.

LOS is resolved whenever the Wound is allocated (p16). Look on p15 for the rules on when Wounds are allocated.

In other words, your game store is only half right. Wounds are allocated after saves only when all the saves in the unit are the same. If you have a Libby at the front of your unit with a storm shield, you have to roll LOS before rolling saves because the Wounds would have to be allocated first (p15, 'Mixed Saves').

infinityandbeyond wrote:
With your example of Libby w/SS at the front; if you took say, 5 bolter wounds and 2 plasma wounds; your opponent makes you take the bolter wounds first, you can LoS! on a 2+ to pass them from your Libby to Terminators, then roll the saves. Then the plasma wounds are done in the same way (although you would not have to make the LoS; just allocate them to the Libby and take the saves.

You were correct up to this point.

For your example of 5 Bolter wounds and 2 Plasma, the 5 bolter wounds are saved first, those saves are all rolled in 1 go and any failed saved\s can then be LoS'd away. However the Plasma saves must be allocated prior to saves rolled(and therefore LoS rolled prior to saves); this is because the saves involved are mixed(5++ for regular termies 3++ for the Libby).

Exactly what has been said above. Keep in mind one thing though; if the save was failed before the LoS! roll passed, the model who takes the Wound does not get another save. Since they all have the same save it has already failed, that model just intervened in time to take the bullet himself, but that does not mean two saves get to be attempted.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

infinityandbeyond wrote:
With your example of Libby w/SS at the front; if you took say, 5 bolter wounds and 2 plasma wounds; your opponent makes you take the bolter wounds first, you can LoS! on a 2+ to pass them from your Libby to Terminators, then roll the saves. Then the plasma wounds are done in the same way (although you would not have to make the LoS; just allocate them to the Libby and take the saves.

You were correct up to this point.

For your example of 5 Bolter wounds and 2 Plasma, the 5 bolter wounds are saved first, those saves are all rolled in 1 go and any failed saved\s can then be LoS'd away. However the Plasma saves must be allocated prior to saves rolled(and therefore LoS rolled prior to saves); this is because the saves involved are mixed(5++ for regular termies 3++ for the Libby).

Ah, thanks for the correction - I was under the impression if there were different saves in the unit then the alternate allocation kicks in. This is good to know and will speed my games up a bit!

Do this for each group of wounds in the wound pool. (wound pool order decided by shooting player.)

All saves the same: Roll all saves, Allocate Unsaved Wound, LOS or not, roll FnP (If all models have the same FnP, you can roll all FnP when you roll the saves)

Mixed saves: Allocate Wound, LOS or not, roll saves, roll FnP...

The key is that LOS triggers immediately on the *allocation*.

So a model may *not* take a save and then LOS

Edit