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Question from a game last night. I had my Nids and I was playing against foot IG. My opponent had a Lord Commisar and I had Deathleaper. I used Deathleaper's "He's After me" ability to drop the Lord Commisar to LD8. Now as he has AoC all units within 6" HAVE to use his leadership.

So far so good.

The problem was that I then shot a unit with some Devgaunts. I caused enough damage to force a morale check. The unit was within 6" of the Lord Commisar.

Now the question that came up was the Lord Commisar's LD was 8. They need to use his leadership per AoC. The devourer hits cause a -1 to leadership checks on the unit being shot.

My opponent said that as the Lord Commisar was not in the unit being shot that he would not take the -1 to his leadership. So they should take the test at LD8.
I said that the Lord Commisar's leadership should be used as the highest leadership in the unit, but then be modified for the Devourer special rule. So they should test at LD7.

There is no requirement to use the Lord Commissar's Leadership, unless he is attached to the unit, in which case the unit is Stubborn.

what happyjew said.

other notes:

fairly certain there is an order of operation defined in the rulebook for modifiers.

so devilgaunts would have applied a negative modifer to the unit, if the comissars ld was required to be used or could be used by any unit within 6' and he was not in the unit being fired at the unit would then be made to the comissars ld after the modifer for devilgaunts as things that set a value are the last thing that happens. I believe.

The unit could use the LoC's Leadership for the test. That would be LD 8. The unit would then make a test at -1 ( due to the Devourers) based on that LD. So therefore 7.

Happyjew wrote:
There is no requirement to use the Lord Commissar's Leadership, unless he is attached to the unit, in which case the unit is Stubborn.

There is no requirement to us the LC's leadership even if he is attached to the squad. You simply used the highest Ld available.

But yeah. "Any friendly unit within 6" of a Lord Commissar may use his leadership for bla bla bla".

 Testify wrote:

Even then if there is another model with a higher leadership, they will use his.

True, I should have specified, that you would use the LC's leadership if it is the highest.

The lost commissar is stubborn and therefor cant have his leadership lowered for moral tests. His leadership is being used by the other unit for a moral test so no penalties.

The question is if a unit the LC is not attached to chooses to use his Leadership, and are subject to a Leadership penalty, what is the order of application? This is similar to Orks invoking the Mob rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Happyjew wrote:
There is no requirement to use the Lord Commissar's Leadership, unless he is attached to the unit, in which case the unit is Stubborn.

OK, so I just found out that the underlined is incorrect, as changed by the FAQ.

IG FAQ wrote: Any friendly unit from C:IG within 6" of a Lord Commissar must use his Leadership...

Emphasis mine.

As some people has said the IG FAQ changed May to Must for AoD. Its why I modified his leadership.Stuborn does not make it so that "It's after me" noes not work. It modifies the stat and is not technically a morale penalty. If I shot at a stuborn unit they would ignore the -1 from the Devourers though.

The question still stands if a unit that does not have the LC attached take the -1 penalty for the devourers. I can see both sides, but I belive that they -1 modifer is still in place.

 Gloomfang wrote:
The question still stands if a unit that does not have the LC attached take the -1 penalty for the devourers. I can see both sides, but I belive that they -1 modifer is still in place.

Agreed. They use the LC's leadership in place of their own, but still suffer any penalties.

Thats how I would run it as well. Use his LD and then suffer the -1 penalty

Happyjew wrote:
The question is if a unit the LC is not attached to chooses to use his Leadership, and are subject to a Leadership penalty, what is the order of application? This is similar to Orks invoking the Mob rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Happyjew wrote:
There is no requirement to use the Lord Commissar's Leadership, unless he is attached to the unit, in which case the unit is Stubborn.

OK, so I just found out that the underlined is incorrect, as changed by the FAQ.

IG FAQ wrote: Any friendly unit from C:IG within 6" of a Lord Commissar must use his Leadership...

Emphasis mine.

It's weird they'd put that in, seeing as he's Ld 10 and stubborn. I guess it's to prevent the IG getting Combat Tactics Lite.