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EDIT 4: changed title to reflect a wider scope.

EDIT 3: Did some rewording on the list to reduce confusion.

EDIT 2:

HQ - gave him melta bombs for 'just in case' anti-tank capability

Troops - gave the meltagun squads a combi-melta for an added anti-tank/anti-mc shot; changed the MMs on the plasmagun squads to HBs to add more shots which should be better for anti-infantry since that's what they'll be for.

Should I take away the combi-plasma from the sergeant and use the points for melta bombs on the plasmagun squads for 'just in case' anti-tank capability... or maybe change the combi-plasma to hellfire rounds?

HQ
Space Marine Captain 180
Relic Blade
Space Marine Bike
Melta bombs
Combi-Plasma

Troop
Space Marine Bike Squad 225
5 bikes
Meltagun
Meltagun
Attack Bike
Multi-melta
Combi-melta
Melta bombs

Space Marine Bike Squad 225
5 bikes
Meltagun
Meltagun
Attack Bike
Multi-melta
Combi-melta
Melta bombs

Space Marine Bike Squad 220
5 bikes
Plasma gun
Plasma gun
Attack Bike
Combi-plasma

Space Marine Bike Squad 220
5 bikes
Plasma gun
Plasma gun
Attack Bike
Combi-plasma

Fast Attack
Storm Talon 155
Typhoon Missile Launcher

Storm Talon 155
Typhoon Missile Launcher

Attack Bikes 120
3 Bikes

The full-sized bike squads are costing you a lot over maxing out special weapons - I'd drop 3 marines from each and save 225 points for a fourth squad.

I'd also drop the power sword sergeants. Even with them, you're going to get tied up against meq, and without them you'll still slaughter weaker units. And lastly, the lone vindicator is pretty vulnerable, being the only non-flyer. I might sub it out for a third stormtalon.

What about flyers? How are you gonna deal with them?

I think the OP will turboboost around and stay in LOS blocking terrain to counter flyers. Flyers can't capture and with their limited movements, they can't kill things that always get a jink save. Plus, he has two Stormtalons.

First off, if you insist on a relic blade on the captain, pay the 5 pts. for a combi-weapon!

on the bike squads, either combat squad them every game or double up or special weapons (no mixing melta and plasma).

Drop the vindicator, it has no place, another ST would be fine, but airspace would be pretty cluttered and thats almost half the army you can't use turn 1. I'd try a nice 3 man attack bike squad, or some scouts in a storm.

Finally, add a PF or two, they are really needed this edition (maybe on the captain and a single sergeant)

i think just some minor tweaking would be in order for my liking. I would run somethign like this.

HQ
Space Marine Captain 165
Bolt Pistol
Relic Blade
Space Marine Bike

Troops
Space Marine Bike Squad 285
Meltagun
Meltagun
Attack Bike
Multi-melta

Space Marine Bike Squad 290
Meltagun
Meltagun
Melta Bombs
Attack Bike
Multi-melta

Space Marine Bike Squad 300
Plasma Gun
Plasma Gun
Melta Bombs
Attack Bike
Multi-melta


Fast Attack
Stormtalon Gunship 155
Sky Hammer

Stormtalon Gunship 155
Sky Hammer

x 3 MM Atk Bikes- 150


So I doubled up onthe Plasma in one squad and left you with 2 double Melta squads. I took off the Power Swords because I dont feel they are needed TBH. I think Melta Bombs will suffice if you need to assault any kind of vehicle or Walker. The Captain will join the squad without the Melta Bombs. I dropped the Vindi because it just can't keep up with your army. everything else is moving forward fast, while the lumbering Vindi is sloggin in the back. Instead I put in 3 MM Attack Bikes with the points. They keep up with your other bikes and add another melta hunter in. Last thing and more of preference really is the Sky Hammer missiles. I would rather shoot 3 times at Str 7 then twice at Str 8. i know their AP 3, but I likethe Sky Hammer better and have worked for me and people I know much better than the Typhoons.

If you feel you dont want the MM Attack bikes you could switch them out for HB bikes and use the points to get PWs back on two of the squads. Those HB Bikes would put out 9 Str 5 shots which isnt too bad I guess.

Emperor awfulness wrote:
The full-sized bike squads are costing you a lot over maxing out special weapons - I'd drop 3 marines from each and save 225 points for a fourth squad.

I'd also drop the power sword sergeants. Even with them, you're going to get tied up against meq, and without them you'll still slaughter weaker units. And lastly, the lone vindicator is pretty vulnerable, being the only non-flyer. I might sub it out for a third stormtalon.

I originally was going to have the Bike Squads Combat Squad So I'd have 6 scoring units on the board... I never figured out though how I wanted to distribute the special weaponry.

A 4th bike squad sounds like a good idea. It will also give me another MM and more Plasma or Melta guns. I can see dropping the swords. I had the Vindicator for its template. I figure it would have helped with infantry... and the ordanance would have been useful against vehicles... but I can see what you're saying about it being vulnerable. I think the 3rd Stormtalon would make a good replacement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SCP Yeeman wrote:
i think just some minor tweaking would be in order for my liking. I would run somethign like this.

HQ
Space Marine Captain 165
Bolt Pistol
Relic Blade
Space Marine Bike

Troops
Space Marine Bike Squad 285
Meltagun
Meltagun
Attack Bike
Multi-melta

Space Marine Bike Squad 290
Meltagun
Meltagun
Melta Bombs
Attack Bike
Multi-melta

Space Marine Bike Squad 300
Plasma Gun
Plasma Gun
Melta Bombs
Attack Bike
Multi-melta


Fast Attack
Stormtalon Gunship 155
Sky Hammer

Stormtalon Gunship 155
Sky Hammer

x 3 MM Atk Bikes- 150


So I doubled up onthe Plasma in one squad and left you with 2 double Melta squads. I took off the Power Swords because I dont feel they are needed TBH. I think Melta Bombs will suffice if you need to assault any kind of vehicle or Walker. The Captain will join the squad without the Melta Bombs. I dropped the Vindi because it just can't keep up with your army. everything else is moving forward fast, while the lumbering Vindi is sloggin in the back. Instead I put in 3 MM Attack Bikes with the points. They keep up with your other bikes and add another melta hunter in. Last thing and more of preference really is the Sky Hammer missiles. I would rather shoot 3 times at Str 7 then twice at Str 8. i know their AP 3, but I likethe Sky Hammer better and have worked for me and people I know much better than the Typhoons.

If you feel you dont want the MM Attack bikes you could switch them out for HB bikes and use the points to get PWs back on two of the squads. Those HB Bikes would put out 9 Str 5 shots which isnt too bad I guess.

Thank you for the suggestions. I don't usually consider the Attack bike squads ... but I've only thought of them as MM delivery units. Having the kitted out stock with HB might help. They move faster than a Vindicator and the amount of shots coming from them i think makes up for the lack of the pie plate.

 djphranq wrote:

Emperor awfulness wrote:
The full-sized bike squads are costing you a lot over maxing out special weapons - I'd drop 3 marines from each and save 225 points for a fourth squad.

I'd also drop the power sword sergeants. Even with them, you're going to get tied up against meq, and without them you'll still slaughter weaker units. And lastly, the lone vindicator is pretty vulnerable, being the only non-flyer. I might sub it out for a third stormtalon.

I originally was going to have the Bike Squads Combat Squad So I'd have 6 scoring units on the board... I never figured out though how I wanted to distribute the special weaponry.

A 4th bike squad sounds like a good idea. It will also give me another MM and more Plasma or Melta guns. I can see dropping the swords. I had the Vindicator for its template. I figure it would have helped with infantry... and the ordanance would have been useful against vehicles... but I can see what you're saying about it being vulnerable. I think the 3rd Stormtalon would make a good replacement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SCP Yeeman wrote:
i think just some minor tweaking would be in order for my liking. I would run somethign like this.

HQ
Space Marine Captain 165
Bolt Pistol
Relic Blade
Space Marine Bike

Troops
Space Marine Bike Squad 285
Meltagun
Meltagun
Attack Bike
Multi-melta

Space Marine Bike Squad 290
Meltagun
Meltagun
Melta Bombs
Attack Bike
Multi-melta

Space Marine Bike Squad 300
Plasma Gun
Plasma Gun
Melta Bombs
Attack Bike
Multi-melta


Fast Attack
Stormtalon Gunship 155
Sky Hammer

Stormtalon Gunship 155
Sky Hammer

x 3 MM Atk Bikes- 150


So I doubled up onthe Plasma in one squad and left you with 2 double Melta squads. I took off the Power Swords because I dont feel they are needed TBH. I think Melta Bombs will suffice if you need to assault any kind of vehicle or Walker. The Captain will join the squad without the Melta Bombs. I dropped the Vindi because it just can't keep up with your army. everything else is moving forward fast, while the lumbering Vindi is sloggin in the back. Instead I put in 3 MM Attack Bikes with the points. They keep up with your other bikes and add another melta hunter in. Last thing and more of preference really is the Sky Hammer missiles. I would rather shoot 3 times at Str 7 then twice at Str 8. i know their AP 3, but I likethe Sky Hammer better and have worked for me and people I know much better than the Typhoons.

If you feel you dont want the MM Attack bikes you could switch them out for HB bikes and use the points to get PWs back on two of the squads. Those HB Bikes would put out 9 Str 5 shots which isnt too bad I guess.

Thank you for the suggestions. I don't usually consider the Attack bike squads ... but I've only thought of them as MM delivery units. Having the kitted out stock with HB might help. They move faster than a Vindicator and the amount of shots coming from them i think makes up for the lack of the pie plate.

I like the list, other than the obvious facts that TML is superior to Sky Hammers IMHO. The ap 3 and option to make it blast really helps. The skyhammer is just 1 1/2 autocannnons.

I really do think 3 SR is overkill, the space a flyer needs to move is tremendous. I can see one entering from each table and flying diagonally, but 3 just seems too much.

Then theres the obvious if bikes are restless and your relic blade denys extra cc weapon bonus's, why keep the pistol. a combo-melta or plasma are easy to obtain, and a combo-flamer will be released shortly. why wouldn't you take one?

How does this look?

HQ - I added a combi-plasma to give him a couple str 7 shots and a meltabomb in case he comes across a vehicle

Troops - I used smaller bike squads for a total of 4: 2 w/ meltaguns and 2 w/ plasmaguns. I gave the sergeants of the Meltagun squads meltabombs to add some more tankbusting. I gave the sergeants of the Plasmagun squads combi-plasmas to give them more shots since I'm going to focus the plasmagun squads against infantry.

Fast Attack - The Storm Talons I changed to have TML because of the versatility and ap 3. I added a attack bike squad with stock heavybolters to help with infantry


The meltagun bike squads I'll have move up as fast as possible to take care of vehicles/walkers/MCs... then when they've done their jobs, I'll rush them to objectives.
The plasmagun bike squads and the attack bike squad will take care of infantry... then when the plasmagun bike squads have done their job I'll rush them to objectives.
The Storm Talons will be pretty much my Anti-Flyer guys... and when they've done their job they can help out with other vehicles with their krak missiles... or help out with taking out infantry with their assault cannons and frag missiles.
The Captain, I'm thinking of running with one of the plasmagun squads to add to the firepower and I'm thinking the plasmagun squads will be more likely to come across infantry or characters for assault/challenges.

HQ
Captain 180
Bike
Relic Blade
Combi-Plasma
Meltabombs


Troops
Bike Squad 215
5 bikes
Attack Bike w/ MM
2 Meltagun
Meltabomb

Bike Squad 215
5 bikes
Attack Bike w/ MM
2 Meltagun
Meltabomb

Bike Squad 230
5 bikes
Attack Bike w/ MM
2 Plasmagun
Combi-plasma

Bike Squad 230
5 bikes
Attack Bike w/ MM
2 Plasmagun
Combi-plasma

Fast Attack
Storm Talon 155
Typhoon Missile Launcher

Storm Talon 155
Typhoon Missile Launcher

Attack Bike Squad 120
3 Bikes

Looks dangerous if short ranged.

My first impression is those storm talons and attack bikes will rain damage but the bikes need to close, so they either all comit forward or use bolters at distance.

Not sure how that will go.

I would drop two MM ABs and make them HB bikes to enhance mass dakka as think you have AT well covered.

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
Looks dangerous if short ranged.

My first impression is those storm talons and attack bikes will rain damage but the bikes need to close, so they either all comit forward or use bolters at distance.

Not sure how that will go.

I would drop two MM ABs and make them HB bikes to enhance mass dakka as think you have AT well covered.

Good Idea.... I think I'll do that for the plasmagun squads. They're focus is to pour out as many shots as possible so the HB would be better than an MM.

If you max out the bike squads you can reduce their number and combat squad them - 3+attack bike and 5 with the two special weapons and melta bombs. Dont forget to fall back when forced to make leadership checks.

I would make your commander a bit more versatile and then bulk out your support. Your bikes you do not want decisively engaged. They wont be able to handle much in close combat. Your support elements should be strong enough to keep your bikes mobile.



HQ
Captain 195
Bike
Thunder hammer
Lightning Claw

Elite
Rifle Dread
Rifle Dread

Troops
Bike Squad 270
8 bikes
Attack Bike w/ MM
2 Flamers
Meltabomb

Bike Squad 270
8 bikes
Attack Bike w/ MM
2 Flamers
Meltabomb

Fast Attack
Storm Talon 155 , Typhoon Missile Launcher
Attack Bike Squad 150 , 3 MM Bikes

Heavy Support
Thunder Fire Cannon
Thunder Fire cannon

djphranq's list is better than kaiser von hugals.

kaiser, your list is too static. The advantage of a bike list is the multitude of fast moving units confounding the enemy. If a player can't think quick enough to take out the vital units, then its game over. Your list has 17 bikes and a SR that can do that. a little bit of dedicated firepower will clear these and then he can focus on objectives and pick off the guns as an afterthought.

djphranq's list however (using our suggestions) contains 21 bikes, 3 attack bikes and two SR for a grand total of 26 fast moving units. This is a good list, as good as any bike list. The enemy will have to pick of the bike squads, but will have 20 to deal with (as opposed to 16, it makes a difference). Also, unlike a static gun line, an opponent can't afford to ignore the SR's. The AB's have the unique advantage of being able to move 12in and shooting or going 36 (I think its 36 for bikes) to relocate all together. And if they get shot at, well, lets just say the guys a noob.

One last thought I just came up with: Try a Librarian on a bike. He is cheaper (not by much, but its an extra weapon upgrade somewhere) and can utilise the sexy new powers. Since bikers don't want to be in combat, captains are made for combat and librarians provide a shooty but powerful in assault character.

If the Librarian could make the Bike Squads troop choices I'd do it.

If you swap the Captain for a Librarian the list is broken.

Im not saying one list is better. I should have explained why certain support elements are in the list I do suggest though. The rifle dreads and TFC's I do not consider "static". The dread can move withough diminishing firepower and the TFC can reach and touch, deploy these carefully and you will dominate the board.

Both of these are there to engage targets that put your bikes at risks. They target things faster than your bikes. Think of a bike army as competing to control the air space. It cant do it if there is something else out there thats faster than it.

Prime targets would Dark Eldar Reavers and Eldar Jet Bikes.

One tactic you can use to get those MM AB's into range is to attach the Captain to them and use LOS to distribute wounds. WHen they get close enough, the Captain can Break off and hammer a Manticore or Lightning Claw a Long Fang Pack.

I forgot about that, sorry, forget I said anything

and as for static, in a bike list, they pretty much are. 6in a turn doesn't really turn the heat on. Plus the dread and TFC will need cover. If your going to spend the points for bikes, then you can't afford a gunline. Units you can use are:

-Bike Squads
-Characters on Bikes
-Attack Bikes
-Scout Bikes
-Land Speeders
-Land Speeder Storms
-Scouts (In the Storms)
-Storm Ravens
-Maybe Assault Squad or Vanguard, a Big Maybe

If you try to use anything besides these units, the list will flop. If I was playing your list kaiser, I could defeat it easily. To prove i, heres how:

-First order of business, take out the troops. With 16 bikes, 4 squads of 4, If I could dole out 12 wounds on each squad, they would statistically fail 4 and die. Attack bikes would require a few extra wounds but do nothing else to effect the units survivability. Now you are troopless turn 1 and have no chance of winning.

-Turn 2, finish off any bikes that survived due to poor rolling. I can split the remainder of my fire at the attack bikes and the SR. Let me just say that putting the captain in the AB squad is stupid as they will want to keep a distance for their survival. LOS Allocation will just mean "do you want to kill the AB or the Captain?". So at the end of turn 2, Half the ABs are dead as well as the SR.

-Turn 3, Finish off AB and SR if I had poor rolling. Troops make dash to objectives. Any left over guns can make pot shots at gunline.

-Turn 4, Troops arrive on objectives, all guns turn on gun line

-Turn 5, Same thing, only troops on objectives can now turn their big guns at gun line

-Same thing happens till game ends. I win

Now for the other list:

-Turn 1, have 4 squads of 5, all have ABs and one has the captain. I now need 18 wounds, over 30 in the squad with the captain. Best I can do is focus on most dangerous units and hope I can pick special weapons out. I have killed about half of two squads, maybe a little more if I'm lucky.

-Turn 2, At least one if not both SR appear, I can't afford to hit them with anything besides maybe somthing anti-tank or anti-flyer. Everything else goes into the bikes. Chances are the bikes will still be alive by the end of the turn

-Turn 3, Not looking good, my army is reduced and the bikes are still coming. Bikes are probably now trying to get hidden to keep their numbers up. A couple pot shots, any anti-tank and Flyer goes to SR's.

-Turn 4, Same thing, pot shots at bikes, a few shots at flyers.

-Turn 5, bikes are on the objectives, last chance to dislodge them. one ill fated charge or barage of fire will make or break.

-That really goes on until game end. Game could go either way depending on dice. Notice how the SR's were an afterthought (a dangerous afterthought) and the AB's were untouched. This is a successful list

Latest version (its in the OP as well):

HQ - gave him melta bombs for 'just in case' anti-tank capability

Troops - gave the meltagun squads a combi-melta for an added anti-tank/anti-mc shot; changed the MMs on the plasmagun squads to HBs to add more shots which should be better for anti-infantry since that's what they'll be for.

Should I take away the combi-plasma from the sergeant and use the points for melta bombs on the plasmagun squads for 'just in case' anti-tank capability... or maybe change the combi-plasma to hellfire rounds?

HQ
Space Marine Captain 180
Relic Blade
Space Marine Bike
Melta bombs
Combi-Plasma

Troop
Space Marine Bike Squad 225
2 more bikes
Meltagun
Meltagun
Attack Bike
Multi-melta
Combi-melta
Melta bombs

Space Marine Bike Squad 225
2 more bikes
Meltagun
Meltagun
Attack Bike
Multi-melta
Combi-melta
Melta bombs

Space Marine Bike Squad 220
2 more bikes
Plasma gun
Plasma gun
Attack Bike
Combi-plasma

Space Marine Bike Squad 220
2 more bikes
Plasma gun
Plasma gun
Attack Bike
Combi-plasma

Fast Attack
Storm Talon 155
Typhoon Missile Launcher

Storm Talon 155
Typhoon Missile Launcher

Attack Bikes 120
2 more attack bikes

 djphranq wrote:
Latest version (its in the OP as well):

HQ - gave him melta bombs for 'just in case' anti-tank capability

Troops - gave the meltagun squads a combi-melta for an added anti-tank/anti-mc shot; changed the MMs on the plasmagun squads to HBs to add more shots which should be better for anti-infantry since that's what they'll be for.

Should I take away the combi-plasma from the sergeant and use the points for melta bombs on the plasmagun squads for 'just in case' anti-tank capability... or maybe change the combi-plasma to hellfire rounds?

HQ
Space Marine Captain 180
Relic Blade
Space Marine Bike
Melta bombs
Combi-Plasma

Troop
Space Marine Bike Squad 225
2 more bikes
Meltagun
Meltagun
Attack Bike
Multi-melta
Combi-melta
Melta bombs

Space Marine Bike Squad 225
2 more bikes
Meltagun
Meltagun
Attack Bike
Multi-melta
Combi-melta
Melta bombs

Space Marine Bike Squad 220
2 more bikes
Plasma gun
Plasma gun
Attack Bike
Combi-plasma

Space Marine Bike Squad 220
2 more bikes
Plasma gun
Plasma gun
Attack Bike
Combi-plasma

Fast Attack
Storm Talon 155
Typhoon Missile Launcher

Storm Talon 155
Typhoon Missile Launcher

Attack Bikes 120
2 more attack bikes

Very Nice. HB will get you more shots. I would advise you to consider your local meta, however, to see how often you play large amounts of TEQs (GK, Deathwing and Wolf Guard Lists). If you play a lot of them, consider a MM on at least 1 plasma squad. For understanding purposes, just put how many bikes, not 2 more. I can understand that base 3 + 2 more = 5 bikes, but others might find it difficult. On my first glance, I thought you brought the squads to 7, then realized that ABs can't field 5 in a squad. Combi-Plasmas are the same as MM, see how often you'd need them. However, I recommend you keep them for the simple fact that you have 2 bike squads and 2 flyers with anti-tank capability. If your really worried, transfer Melta bombs from the melta squad to the plasma. Keep combi-plasma for sure on captain, Hellfire isn't worth it when you can have ap2 instead.

I hadn't considered the local meta because I was going to be using this for tournaments* across different locations... but I probably should think about what's played local if I intend to get some practice in.

EDIT: *changed Frontline Gaming Events to tournaments since not all tournaments are Frontline gaming events.

Forgot about tournament part. Then yeah, HBs are good all comers. Keep combi-plasma though

What do you think if I switch out the AB squad with a AutoLas pred? in my 1850 list I put 2 in there for long range support.