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Now I don't normally play at GW stores but still looking at my new Tau allies I started wondering.
I in all honesty see the wysiwyg rule as a pain and as a sales trick so some part of my brain has been trying to circumvent it or bent it if possible. One way to do this, I figured, would be to overequip your figures, say a crisis suit with four weapons instead of the usual two for semitry.

Would having too many weapons on a single model break the wysiwyg rule?

AL-PiXeL01 wrote:
Now I don't normally play at GW stores but still looking at my new Tau allies I started wondering.
I in all honesty see the wysiwyg rule as a pain and as a sales trick so some part of my brain has been trying to circumvent it or bent it if possible. One way to do this, I figured, would be to overequip your figures, say a crisis suit with four weapons instead of the usual two for semitry.

Would having too many weapons on a single model break the wysiwyg rule?

Strangely I think that would irk me more than not having the proper weapon on the model

Are you even allowed to have 4 weapons on a suit?
This is a horrible, pointless idea.

If you really want to break wysiwyg, you can just put the normal 2 weapons on a suit, and call them whatever you want.
Like, say those two plasma guns are flamers. Of course, must have the correct entry in your army list, complete with points cost, and you have to make it clear to your opponent before hand.

Magnets. Magnets are your best friend. Honestly, it will save you both money and headaches for having to explain the alternate equipment for every game you play.

Irdion wrote:
Magnets. Magnets are your best friend. Honestly, it will save you both money and headaches for having to explain the alternate equipment for every game you play.

How will it save money? Headaches, I understand, but wouldn't it be more expensive to buy and attach magnets, rather than just proxying?

A pack of decent magnets suitable for the hobby will set you back £6 at most...

The point of wysiwyg is two fold. Firstly, it stops people getting confused. If a meltagun is always a meltagun, then there's no room for confusion. The second effect follows on from that, stopping people from taking advantage of that confusion.

A side effect is that it prevents people from just swapping weapons/units around willy-nilly to take advantage of the newest and best rules. Which I am ok with.

 Eiríkr wrote:
A pack of decent magnets suitable for the hobby will set you back £6 at most...

And depending on what you're magnetising, can be an absolute nightmare. I'm magnetising a Carnifex right now, and the arm sockets are close enough to make placing magnets in drilled holes insanity inducing. Not to mention magnetising weapons that need to meet at the middle, like a Heavy Venom Cannon.

Magnets are not a solution for the average gamer.

AL-PiXeL01 wrote:
Now I don't normally play at GW stores but still looking at my new Tau allies I started wondering.
I in all honesty see the wysiwyg rule as a pain and as a sales trick so some part of my brain has been trying to circumvent it or bent it if possible. One way to do this, I figured, would be to overequip your figures, say a crisis suit with four weapons instead of the usual two for semitry.

Would having too many weapons on a single model break the wysiwyg rule?

I thought about this as well but the one time I tried it I didn't like the look of it. The models end up looking overcrowded and a pain to paint. I would just put the two you like to use most then proxy if you want to try something out.

A word of cuation, you'll give your self more headaches trying to follow everyone's idea of wysiwyg. To be honest everyone has their own ideas of what that means and some people can be down right convoluted with it. Some people like conversion some don't. It turns into an unholy mess. Just do what looks good to you.

I can speak from experience and say that magnetising the weapons on crisis suits is both easy and convenient, and also extremenly cool - the models simply look much better when they have the appropriate kit for their role.

As someone currently building about 9 crisis suits, I am magnetizing everything. yes it takes time but you end up with exactly what you have listed in your army.

second, glueing every weapon in the kit to the body will look like hell and not only confuse your opponent but you as well.

you spent 20+ dollars on a single suit kit, spend the extra 50 cents in magnets to do it right.

if you absolutely dont want to use magnets, assemble the kit no weapon no option. go to walmart and get white postertac that will be on sale with back to school supplies. use little balls to stick on options. take off when done.

a single pack of postertac is like 99 cents and will easily do the weapons for a dozen suits.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Eiríkr wrote:
A pack of decent magnets suitable for the hobby will set you back £6 at most...

And depending on what you're magnetising, can be an absolute nightmare. I'm magnetising a Carnifex right now, and the arm sockets are close enough to make placing magnets in drilled holes insanity inducing. Not to mention magnetising weapons that need to meet at the middle, like a Heavy Venom Cannon.

Magnets are not a solution for the average gamer.

You're doing this on the inside of the body, right?
Put one magnet over an arm hole. Hold it down with glue and some green stuff (or other putty). Attach second magnet to another putty blob. Maneuver into place and smush the putty. Wait for glue to dry. Celebrate.

And magnetizing Carnifexes is cheaper than spending $50 per.
WYSIWYG isn't just a sales tactic, its polite to your opponent.

rigeld2 wrote:
You're doing this on the inside of the body, right?
Put one magnet over an arm hole. Hold it down with glue and some green stuff (or other putty). Attach second magnet to another putty blob. Maneuver into place and smush the putty. Wait for glue to dry. Celebrate.

Following a guide I read. Drill a hole for the magnet, hold magnet in hole, glue. If there's gaps, fill with putty. It works, it's just a royal pain holding them in the hole without them snapping onto the magnet in the other hole. It was worse when I did it for my first fex, where I decided to do it after I built it, and had to work on a constructed body, but even still, it wasn't easy. I think people used to doing this kind of modelling forget the average gamer does not have the patience for this kind of thing - it's not a solution for everyone.

rigeld2 wrote:
And magnetizing Carnifexes is cheaper than spending $50 per.

Hence why I'm doing it. For me, it's $83 per Carnifex.

I guess I'm just lucky that I don't play in stores and pretty much use "Count As" in most games. As long as it's on the sheet, you're fine.

But saying that, I'll have to snap off a tonne of Chosen with PF/Claws to make up the other figures that I may need.

But I'd always thought that Wysiwyg was primarily for tournament play.

I've only ever had 1 person complain, but he was a douche.

G

 Grumzimus wrote:
But I'd always thought that Wysiwyg was primarily for tournament play.

As said above, it's there to reduce confusion. It's a tournament rule because TO's make it a tournament rule, because it's sensible in tournaments. In friendly games, it's all down to you and your opponent. If neither of you care much about it as long as you each know what each model is, it's fine.

rigeld2 wrote:

WYSIWYG isn't just a sales tactic, its polite to your opponent.

This. I understand that not everyone plays WYSIWYG, but I appreciate those that do. I don't want to have to ask you every turn if that unit over there is the one with the power fist, or which squad is packed full of plasma. If I can just look at your army and know what's what, it is so much nicer. If you need to proxy, try to keep it down to a few things so it's easy for everyone to remember.

I'll also second the magnet thing. For the cash we spend on minis, the little extra for magnets is hardly a blip on the radar. And postertack is a wonderful substitute for those who don't feel up to the modeling challenge of magnetizing.

Yeah, unless you're trying to make a funny suit for laughs, just slapping all the possible guns on something looks hideous, and makes it harder to tell what it really is at the same time.

And tau suits should be easy to magnetize with all those flat surfaces, so i don't see why you're griping. If this was a monstrous creature or something I could see your point, but a tau suit would be fairly straightfoward. Seriously, try magnets, they're awesome. They make your models much easier to see what they are, and magnets are dirt cheap for how many you get.

while magnets are slightly moire expensive (I picked up a pack of 300 for $31 shipped to my house) they DO make the models looks much better when they are properly equipped, and its much easier to see what weapon the model is using. very convienent.

the problem I have is almost my entire army is old Grey Knights (metal) and they had a siongle pose and no weapon options. so I have to buy bits galore to correct that.

I'm a violator of this. My Valkyrie has not only both sets of missiles and rocket pods, but also a Leman Russ punisher gatling gun on the front nose, a rear heavy bolter turret, and a multi-laser on top of the lascannon armament.

I'd probably just ignore the extra armament in that scenario....

The thing about WYSIWYG, as I have always understood it, is that it is more than just 'all the equipment that the model has is modeled on it,' it also includes NOT modeling equipment that the model shouldn't have. So a Crisis Suit with 4 weapons can never be WYSIWYG. (I wouldn't allow it in a tournament where WYSIWYG was being enforced.)

Magnets can indeed be difficult on some of the more complicated stuff. (I've been trying to magnetize my character's wrist so I can just swap out his hands whenever I like, and that's been rough. I can't imagine the nightmare that is Loki's Carnifex project...) I think that magnets, like green stuff, are one of those project that seems more daunting than it is. They aren't that expensive if you get them online, and they make your fig look great.

That being said, the weapons on a Crisis Suit are so light that you dont even need to shell out the skrillas for rare earth magnets. I dont know if Japan is the same in this regard, but I have a bazillion refrigerator magnets that I get for free from sports teams or the bank or what have you. (The flexible kind) While they lack the strength to hold a large model together, they certainly can be cut up with a pair of scissors and used to hold the weapons onto a Crisis Suit. If you want an idea of their holding power, I use them to hold the Storm Bolters onto my Drop Pods, on the offchance that I would want to swap them out for the missles.

Hope that helps.

While we're on the subject of magnets, I've been thinking about using some my self. When you use them do you paint over them or leave them bair?

 wowsmash wrote:
While we're on the subject of magnets, I've been thinking about using some my self. When you use them do you paint over them or leave them bair?

It depends where they are. I've got surface magnets in some of my Ork vehicles that I paint over. I know where they are but you can't see them. I use them to attach magnetized Grot Riggers.

I've also got magnets that are in sockets, like on my Deff Dread or my Kans. I never made any effort to paint over those, because there is always an arm/gun in the socket during the game. Most of them got hit with primer when I sprayed the model, but I don't paint more on there or fix it when it scratches.


Also, my general tips on magnetizing:
1 - Put the magnets in the torso before you assemble the torso. So much easier.
2 - Get a drill bit exactly the same diameter as your magnets. Most of my magnets are 1/8", so are my drill bits.
3 - Get drill bits with a brad point (also called a doweling drill bit). They are designed for wood but they work great for soft plastic. They don't wander and they drill a hole with a much flatter bottom than a regular drill bit, which helps glue adhesion and makes it less likely that you'll punch through something you don't want to (this worked great for drilling the holes in the ball connection points on Deff Dread weapons).