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Hey all,

As the title suggests, I'm looking to create a 35pt army to face against my friends 35pt Khador list.

He has the models from the 2 player Warmachine battle box plus some extras, here is his list:-

Kommander Orsus Zoktavir (*6pts)
* Destroyer (9pts)
* Destroyer (9pts)
* Juggernaut (7pts)
* War dog (1pts)
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (4pts)
Widowmaker Marksman (2pts)

I simply am looking for any Warmachine or Hordes list that would be optimal against his list.

Many thanks in advance

Well the big question is....

What do you have to work with?

 darefsky wrote:
Well the big question is....

What do you have to work with?

I am starting from scratch & just getting into the game - I'm in a position to be able to buy any 35 point army and I'd like to know what would be the most effective against his list?

Just getting in? I wouldn't start at 35 points. Take time at the battlebox level and move slowly to the higher levels. Much of the game revolves around the interactions between a warcaster and their warjacks.

Any faction could defeat that Khador list and most lists would stand a chance at winning. There are the big casters like Deneghra, Haley, Kreoss, Kromac, makada, etc. But the problem is that your friend has an army already. Say you come up with the perfect list to defeat the butcher and he then switches to Sorscha1 or a Vlad. You are suddenly facing a different playstyle and your butcher killer is less effective.

Basically, I'm trying to say, pick a faction and someone here can guide you through the starting phases.

I can suggest for 15 points fielding...

pSkarre
- Deathripper
- Helldiver
- Skarlock Thrall
Satyxis Raiders ( full unit )
- Sea Witch
Satyxis Captain

...that alone should be able to handle that Khador list, not to mention is a good start for a Cryx army. From there you can add support as you like - keeping in mind that Skarre favors infantry heavy lists. Bringing the list up to 25 you could go with...

Bane Thralls ( min ) with Officer & Standard
Warwitch Siren

...then finally for 35 points you could include...

Bane Thralls bumped to max unit size
Bane Lord Tartarus
Pistol Wraith

Note: a more optimal choice would be to field a Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls rather than the Warwitch Siren = this unit when coupled with the Skarlock ( sacrifice ) is what serves as Skarre's Focus battery, and the Surgeon can heal Skarre after her Feat.

Empathic wrote:Hey all,

As the title suggests, I'm looking to create a 35pt army to face against my friends 35pt Khador list.

He has the models from the 2 player Warmachine battle box plus some extras, here is his list:-

Kommander Orsus Zoktavir (*6pts)
* Destroyer (9pts)
* Destroyer (9pts)
* Juggernaut (7pts)
* War dog (1pts)
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (4pts)
Widowmaker Marksman (2pts)

I simply am looking for any Warmachine or Hordes list that would be optimal against his list.

Many thanks in advance

So your friend is Running eButcher with 2 Destroyers, a Juggy, the Amazing Dog, with STs and widows? very simple list. NOt playing to the strengths of eButcher IMO. for one eButcher has a Variable Focus Stat, which does not play well with 3 focus hungry jacks in his Battlgroup. On top of the Slow as old people infantry hes rocking. its still got health and hits like a truck. but its like a tractor going down the highway, honk as much as you want, its not getting much past 20MPH...

yastobaal wrote:Just getting in? I wouldn't start at 35 points. Take time at the battlebox level and move slowly to the higher levels. Much of the game revolves around the interactions between a warcaster and their warjacks.

Any faction could defeat that Khador list and most lists would stand a chance at winning. There are the big casters like Deneghra, Haley, Kreoss, Kromac, makada, etc. But the problem is that your friend has an army already. Say you come up with the perfect list to defeat the butcher and he then switches to Sorscha1 or a Vlad. You are suddenly facing a different playstyle and your butcher killer is less effective.

Basically, I'm trying to say, pick a faction and someone here can guide you through the starting phases.

I recomend following this. Your friend seem to be new and/or has a budget limit so there are a lot of options to be able to play the game. the real question is, do you just want to stomp his face in and win, or do you wanna pick some cool looking minis and play to have fun. Having fun is what Gaming is about. If you wanna have fun, stay away from Ret, the right list and you can win Turn 2 95% of the time guaranteed. We have tested it throughly at the shop. and there is not a "General" list which could kill it, you would have to have a highly situational list built specifically for the list. atleast thats what we have found.

I wouldnt build against this list. Its such a slant list he probably wont run it for very long. Plus building against a players list gets borring fast.

Start looking at your lists and having a plan for your own models. As a new player its hard enough to remember what your stuff does, adding his stuff on top of that is going to just frustrate you.

I alway tell new players it takes about a year to get to a good base of game knowledge. 6 months to learn your faction, 6 months to figure out what most of the other factions do.

Just my opinion but this...

 Empathic wrote:


I simply am looking for any Warmachine or Hordes list that would be optimal against his list.

makes you sound like an hole. Don't tailor against his list and don't start at 35pts. Tailoring to his list will make it boring for him really quickly. Especially if he cant buy models to change his list quickly and even if he can buy models quickly you are trying to suck the fun out and making him spend money so he doesn't get trampled by a list. His list will be a better list one that your not geared too and could ultimately smash your list to the ground making you need a new list.

Also try 20pt or 25pt games to start they are easier to learn at than 35pts as at 20pts its less likley to see infantry other than the 2player box. many people will be only running the basics maybe 2 jacks a solo and maybe a unit. But when hordes of fancy units that can get thrown down at 35pts get thrown down when your learning you will find it much harder to learn the basics as he will be able to counter spells and such that you would normally use for learning the basics.

In tournaments that allow multiple lists you ask what the opponent's army is then you select your list that you think will do better about what you know he has from other armies you cannot however make the list on the spot. If he is going to be your only opponent then he will get bored quickly and you won't have anyone to play against and will have pushed a friend out of the game. If he is not and you are going to be going to a club then by tailoring to his list you are opening yourself to get mauled by other lists. Also your trying to get Khador's worst army to play against makes it worse tailoring lists is one thing but getting an army just because your opponents army can't play against them well is really shallow.

I also have a question why do yoiu want to tailor against his list so much?

Sorry if I sound harsh but its what I think.

 redkeyboard wrote:
Just my opinion but this...

 Empathic wrote:


I simply am looking for any Warmachine or Hordes list that would be optimal against his list.

makes you sound like an hole. Don't tailor against his list and don't start at 35pts. Tailoring to his list will make it boring for him really quickly. Especially if he cant buy models to change his list quickly and even if he can buy models quickly you are trying to suck the fun out and making him spend money so he doesn't get trampled by a list. His list will be a better list one that your not geared too and could ultimately smash your list to the ground making you need a new list.

Also try 20pt or 25pt games to start they are easier to learn at than 35pts as at 20pts its less likley to see infantry other than the 2player box. many people will be only running the basics maybe 2 jacks a solo and maybe a unit. But when hordes of fancy units that can get thrown down at 35pts get thrown down when your learning you will find it much harder to learn the basics as he will be able to counter spells and such that you would normally use for learning the basics.

In tournaments that allow multiple lists you ask what the opponent's army is then you select your list that you think will do better about what you know he has from other armies you cannot however make the list on the spot. If he is going to be your only opponent then he will get bored quickly and you won't have anyone to play against and will have pushed a friend out of the game. If he is not and you are going to be going to a club then by tailoring to his list you are opening yourself to get mauled by other lists. Also your trying to get Khador's worst army to play against makes it worse tailoring lists is one thing but getting an army just because your opponents army can't play against them well is really shallow.

I also have a question why do yoiu want to tailor against his list so much?

Sorry if I sound harsh but its what I think.

Agree with the above-battlebox games, then low points games. Secondly, don't tailor to his list.It makes the game less fun for both of you. Him because he'll figure out that you're tailoring lists and will most likely detest you for it, and you because your buddy won't enjoy playing against you. It especially hurts you if you start an army just to beat his eButcher list and hate the army you play. Next, once he has a list that counters his eButcher's bad match-ups, he might not play his eButcher list against your army.

As said above, most tourneys allow multiple lists. You and your opponent look at the options you have, and then you disclose the lists you are playing simultaneously. Lastly, (Disclaimer, I'm not very good on the tourney scene), a view I know some people have is to have one of your lists to do something, and then the other list to counter the 1st list's bad match-ups or to do something the 1st list can't.

The final thing I'm going to say is to play scenarios from the SR pdf

A great counter to this list is menoth. Bring fully decked out (UA and the seneschal) exemplar errant, a choir, pkreoss, a vigilant, and then add crusaders and repenters as necessary. Keep casting lamentation and watch your buddy rage regardless of whether or not he brings ebutcher. manowars dont do well when knocked down either, so his feat is good for that as well. keep the vigilant next to kreoss, have the choir use "dont shoot jacks" every turn, and watch your friend rage-quit khador as a faction.

Another thing to remember is to play some scenarios. That list he is playing could be beat with just solos running circles around his slow as balls army and capping objectives.