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I am having a lot of trouble with cover saves when I play games...

Can someone clarify it?

So from what I know:
IN/ON any Craters, Normal Terrain, Shooting through unit.
5+ Cover Save

Other Ruins and Buildings
would get like 3+ to 4+ save.

Is the above correct? So you do not need to care about LoS when measuring the above cover saves?

So how does obscured work?
Like if I had infantry on a ruin would I get a 4+ save or 3+ save if they were 25% obscured?

From vehicles if you are 25% you get 5+ and an extra +1 if you can't see front armor?
or
Do you get a +1 from just 25%? so Jinking would go to 4+ on cruising speed if obscured?

You only dont bother determining %age coverage through True LOS when you are dealing with area terrain. For every other piece of terrain you must determine if the model is 25% or more covered.

could you elaborate on the questions I have? because it's been a pretty confusing matter.
Thanks

Not really, as they are all resolved through the above

Is it AREA terrain? If so, then the only time you care about %age coverage is when it is a vehicle.

Is it NOT area terrain? Then in order to gain a cover save you need to have 25% of your model covered by the terrain. If this is "true" you then see what cover save has been granted, based on the table.

This is a general sequence to follow.

So the example I wrote for the saves are right?

So the +1 only applies to vehicles and nothing else?

If the models were obscured by any terrain they get 5+?

 Makutsu wrote:
If the models were obscured by any terrain they get 5+?

Only if the terrain itself gives a 5+.

If the terrain obscuring them is a ruin it is a 4+, and if it is a Fortification it is a 3+, and if it is tall grass or razor wire it is a 6+ as per the chart on P.18

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Not really, as they are all resolved through the above

Is it AREA terrain? If so, then the only time you care about %age coverage is when it is a vehicle.

Is it NOT area terrain? Then in order to gain a cover save you need to have 25% of your model covered by the terrain. If this is "true" you then see what cover save has been granted, based on the table.

This is a general sequence to follow.

So this means if ... persay 30 orks, 3 are the only orks not behind a wall which only partially obscures them only 3 orks would be declines a cover save... but in the order of closest to farthest

So lets say the wall looks like this....


....... --------------------------------------------------------- [ "........" = lack of cover, "-----" = cover like a low wall or other unit]
x x x O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O [20 boyz]
X X O O O O O O O O [other 10 boyz)

x= orks not behind cover
0 = orks behind cover

depending on if the enemy was firing to the left of this example or right we would determine when or how a lack of cover saves come into effect. Normally most cover is 5+ so all the "O's" are 5+ cover saves but "X's are not allowed cover.

If the enemy is closer to the "X" orks they must die before the the "O" orks and would receive no save.

If the enemy was closes to the "O" orks than the "X" orks i will get the cover saves killing O orks before X more than likely.

the simplest way i've understood it has been if the model is even 25% obscured they are given the cover save. this cover is ANYTHING that blocked a clear line of sight to your model in question. The trick is not letting people talk you into dropping the cover when you feel pretty sure.

The only time cover saves are considered better than 5+ is if it is a ruin or building which should be agreed upon before the game starts.

Lastly is area of terrain, which is simply considered to provide cover while models stand in it unless the are a vehicle, that stuff is always true LOS so try and hunker down for as much cover as possible to claim that save.

keep in mind terrain isn't the only way models get cover but this should hopefully solve all your problems. if not, sorry that was the best i got.

IN/ON any Craters, Normal Terrain, Shooting through unit.
5+ Cover Save

Yes, considered area terrain and intervening models.

Other Ruins and Buildings
would get like 3+ to 4+ save.

Kinda. Ruins are 4+ Hardened buildings and and fortifications are 3+.

Is the above correct? So you do not need to care about LoS when measuring the above cover saves?

Yes and No. You need LoS to actually be able to shoot model to model. But, its assumed that not every feature and can modeled onto table top terrain. This as long as the model is within the terrain piece they get a save, the model may be in plain sight he is still considered to be in terrain for cover purposes.

So how does obscured work?
Like if I had infantry on a ruin would I get a 4+ save or 3+ save if they were 25% obscured?

Same as above, but more info on area terrain and associated rules on BRB page 91 left column bottom para in bold.

From vehicles if you are 25% you get 5+ and an extra +1 if you can't see front armor?

Yes and Maybe. 25% gets you a cover. the 5+, 4+, 3+ depends on what your getting cover from. Woods, Ruins, so on...
The +1 save is possible do to the facing of the firing model. If the firing model is in the front facing of the vehicle but CAN'T see the front and only a sliver of the side do to LoS cover, this infers a +1 to the save.

or
Do you get a +1 from just 25%? so Jinking would go to 4+ on cruising speed if obscured?

Yes

Hope this helps.

Keep in mind that cover is determined by model. If the model being allocated the wound (aka closest) has cover from at least 1 enemy shooter, it can make a cover save. If not, then it cannot make a cover save even if the rest of the unit is behind cover.

So by default for infantry there's no +1 cover save from anything right?
Like if I were in Area Terrain I would not get extra cover if other area terrain of same cover was blocking me?

I thought if you are firing at the unit you use the lowest cover save possible...

like if they had 2+ you'd use 2+, but if you use focus fire then you can cherry pick the ones with no cover save...

 Makutsu wrote:
So by default for infantry there's no +1 cover save from anything right?

Nothing can have a 1+ save (page19 Maximum Saves).

 grendel083 wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
So by default for infantry there's no +1 cover save from anything right?

Nothing can have a 1+ save (page19 Maximum Saves).

He said +1, not 1+

OP, if you are in area terrain and 25%obscured by other models, you still only get a 5+ save.

Ah, my mistake. Sorry.

 Makutsu wrote:
So by default for infantry there's no +1 cover save from anything right?
Like if I were in Area Terrain I would not get extra cover if other area terrain of same cover was blocking me?

I thought if you are firing at the unit you use the lowest cover save possible...

like if they had 2+ you'd use 2+, but if you use focus fire then you can cherry pick the ones with no cover save...

Area terrain and intervening models both provide a 5+, individually or together. An example of a "cover modifier" would be "going to ground" and the "skilled rider" special rule.

I have had a whole game shop argue with me over this. Ruin are area terrain that give you a 4+ save if intervening correct? But the terrain rule say that other then area terrain you need to have 25% of you covered to claim it. If the ruins are not intervening because I am on the same side of the wall or you are not 25% covered you only get the 5+ save for area terrain right. Tell me If I am doing this wrong dakka because Several people screwed me over in a turny if I did not.

The base area of the ruin is area terrain. 5+ cover save by standing in it.
Any floors above are ruins and give a 4+ cover save if you are 25% obscured from the shooting model.

That what I tried to explain to them but they refused to read through the whole thing. They kept saying it was area terrain that gave a 4+ heck even my partner agreed with them over me.

Then show them pg 98. Based ruins "Treat the base as area terrain"
Then have them flip to pg 91. Area Terrain. "" 5+ cover save"

I did they ignored me and got the manager to agree with them because they were the more experienced players.

Theyre remembering 5th edition, where they would have been right. This is absolutely different in 6th edition.

Also, you don't need to be 25% obscured to gain the cover save in ruins, area or otherwise. The model has to be "in" the terrain. It can be in plain sight. Only vehicles strictly follow the % obscured criteria. Anyone reading rulebooks?

Erm, yes you do. Ruins are, except for the base, normal terrain, which you have to be 25% obscured by to gain a cover save.

Please cite a rule saying otherwise, as page 18 "determining cover saves" gives the general rule you follow for all terrain

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Erm, yes you do. Ruins are, except for the base, normal terrain, which you have to be 25% obscured by to gain a cover save.

Please cite a rule saying otherwise, as page 18 "determining cover saves" gives the general rule you follow for all terrain

We are both kinda right. I shouldn't have said "ruins" and you shouldn't have included "all terrain".

page 91 left column, bottom, last sentence in bold.