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For humanoids it is very easy to define "one handed weapons" but i am having trouble defining one handed for my canoptek wraiths as they default count as having a single ccw as does everyone but they have an upgrade that is a pistol type weapon(particle caster) which most agree would give them an additional attack in close combat, However this is where my dilemma comes up the particle caster is attached to the underside of the wraiths torsos which im unsure if it can still be considered one handed.

Does just having the pistol rule make it one handed?

Does underslung below the torso count as single handed when it comes to necrons?

The new forgeworld Canoptek Acanthrites ( http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/NECRON_CANOPTEK_ACANTHRITES.html ) posses a melta weapon mounted on the top of their torsos does this also count as a one handed weapon?

Most do not agree, because they do not have any specified CCW to start with; this means you are treated as having a non-specific CCW, but as soon as you give them a pstol (a defined CCW) they "lose" (never had) the non specified one.

In short: you do not get an additional attack for having a pistol on the Wraith, as you only have ONE CCW

Not really the answer i was looking for so then lets focus on the Acanthrites they have a voidblade ( single handed ccw ) in their wargear aswell as the assault melta weapon (cutting beam) would that count as a single handed weapon as it is so similar to the particle caster?

Does it say it is a pistol?

If it is not a pistol it does not function as a CCW.

But why does it have to be a pistol? the rulebook says " two single handed weapons (often a melee weapon and/or pistol in each hand ) " sure a pistol is a well known single handed weapon but when your dont have hands what defines "single handed" , what im asking is because the cutting beam is so similar to the wraiths model of a pistol is it a single handed weapon?

Because it dosenthave the "pistol" archetype it dosent. It dosent matter to gw how similar an item is in effect, if it isint explicitly stated as a ccw or pistol then it isint a ccw. One handed is a bit harder but usually it will tell you in a entry if a weapon is two handed.

lexx108 wrote:
But why does it have to be a pistol? the rulebook says " two single handed weapons (often a melee weapon and/or pistol in each hand ) " sure a pistol is a well known single handed weapon but when your dont have hands what defines "single handed" , what im asking is because the cutting beam is so similar to the wraiths model of a pistol is it a single handed weapon?

It has to be a single handed *Close Combat Weapon*. A Pistol IS a CCW, shooting weapons are not, by default, a CCW.
The quote youve given misses the context

nosferatu1001 wrote:

lexx108 wrote:
But why does it have to be a pistol? the rulebook says " two single handed weapons (often a melee weapon and/or pistol in each hand ) " sure a pistol is a well known single handed weapon but when your dont have hands what defines "single handed" , what im asking is because the cutting beam is so similar to the wraiths model of a pistol is it a single handed weapon?

It has to be a single handed *Close Combat Weapon*. A Pistol IS a CCW, shooting weapons are not, by default, a CCW.
The quote youve given misses the context

I see what you are saying and you are probably right but from what im seeing it doesnt specify they have to be 2 CCWs are there any places where it specifically mentions "2 CCWs" rather than just "2 weapons"?

Page 50 - the only place that gives permission to use weapons in close combat is if they have the Melee type.

A pistol has the melee type, but a general shooting weapon does not, and is not a "weapon" that can be used in close combat

Actually the answer is even simpler than that as the rules for ranged weapons state that they can only make shooting attacks.

That doesnt answer the question at all as they are not being used to attack merely counting as weapons during the assault phase

It answers it exactly. You have to have permission to use a shooting weapon as a ccw.

Pistol types have this permission

Does this weapon have this permission? No. It is therefore NOTa ccw

Page 50, last sentence under the heading 'Type'.

Nowhere i see does it state that to gain the extra attack the one handed weapons have to be melee weapons

Then all weapons that are not explicitly 2 handed (including Las cannons) are 1 handed and give extra attacks. That is (a) silly and (b) not supported. The 1 handed vs 2 handed distinction is for close combat, you can therefore only apply it to close combat weapons as you cannot use none close combat weapons in close combat and can't apply bonuses from wargear you are not using.

lexx108 wrote:
Nowhere i see does it state that to gain the extra attack the one handed weapons have to be melee weapons

Then you're ignoring the rules given to you by myself and ghaz. Feel free to do that, but its a house rule most won't find acceptable

Are there any one-handed non-pistol ranged weapons left, anyway? There's was only ever a couple in the rule system, and I think they're long gone. (Storm bolters aren't one-handed weapons despite the fact that terminators wield them in one hand.)

lexx108 wrote:
Nowhere i see does it state that to gain the extra attack the one handed weapons have to be melee weapons

The rules state that a model with two single-handed weapons gains an extra attack in close combat (p24). As Ghaz also pointed out, shooting weapons can only be used to make Shooting attacks (p50). If you're using a single-handed shooting weapon to gain additional close combat attacks, then you're using it for something other than Shooting attacks. Pistols are the obvious exception, since they specifically count as a close combat weapon in the assault phase (p52).

It doesn't matter how many hands a model actually uses to physically hold the weapon; Terminators, for example, hold their storm bolters in one hand, but the Sergeant wouldn't get an extra attack for his power sword from it. The weapon could be held in two or three hands, or held in one hand, or mounted on his groin. It doesn't matter. What matters is what the rules actually say: if the weapon has the Melee type, or can be used in the assault phase as a close combat weapon (like a Pistol), then you get the extra attack.

All melee weapons are one-handed unless they have the two-handed special rule or their rule states it is two-handed (daemon weapons and relic blades for example). Ranged weapons are not given that distinction because it is not relevant to do so since most troops cannot fire more than one weapon per turn anyway, unless they have twin pistols, so the number of hands used to support/fire that weapon is not relevant.

Pyrian wrote:
Are there any one-handed non-pistol ranged weapons left, anyway? There's was only ever a couple in the rule system, and I think they're long gone. (Storm bolters aren't one-handed weapons despite the fact that terminators wield them in one hand.)

Laser/Star Lances, and Triskele are all one-handed ranged weapons. However, I would not count them due to the fact that they are all one-handed CCW as well.

A non-pistol weapon is only a ccw when there is no other specified ccw, so when a character has a ccw and an assault weapon, he has a specified ccw -in the case of Canoptek Acanthrites, the voidblade-, therefore the assault weapon doesn't become a ccw in melee, so, the unit only has one ccw in melee.

Baronyu wrote:A non-pistol weapon is only a ccw when there is no other specified ccw...

No. The rule in question gives you a close combat weapon. It does not allow a shooting weapon to be used in close combat.