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Samuel 205
6 man bike squad /w melta and apothocary 240
6 man bike squad /w melta 225
3 land speeders all typhoon missiles and multi meltas 75 each
Mortis pattern contempter dreadnought with duel assault cannons and cyclone missile launcher 220
Dreadnought with plasma cannon and missile launcher 135

Now if I remember my math correctly that gets me to 1250 points. I am teaming up with a newby blood angels player and this is going to be my first 6th edition game. In the past this list has worked pretty well for me but now with more vehicles and new rules I need advise. I got 400 of 500 shared points to spend still. With games being more objective based would it be wise to run a terminator squad with a librarian or spend points more evenly towards something else? If at all possible I want to take a librarian because when I role for hellfire it has always been strength 8, ap 1-3, though that us subject to change of the dice gods hate me that day.

I need help by the 15 of this month (September 15) before the big game. As far as I have been toldy partner is bringing Dante, 2 teams of sanguinary guard, and 2 furiouso dreads with blood talons. Personally I don't think this list is going to fly (pun intended) but the dice gods are with him.

Again please leave a post I really need help. Thanks.

Sammael you mean...
with objectives, you may wanna run some tac squads with a hvy bolter since you got tons of tank killers in the meltas, and roll a plasma gun (you are DA, after all) or plasma cannon to seize objectives.

Yes I ment sammael, phone autocorrected. Ok more plasma, a tac squad...

I understand the mortis dread. but I really am having trouble with the plasma dread in the ravenwing list. Don't get me wrong I love the plasma dread alot. Juts think you might be able to find something a bit better.

I also don't like meltas on bikes. You have to get to close and then they die cause they are assaulted. That is a bad place for bikes to be. IMHO.

Looks interesting though.

ShadowFingers wrote:
Samuel 205
6 man bike squad /w melta and apothocary 240
6 man bike squad /w melta 225
3 land speeders all typhoon missiles and multi meltas 75 each
Mortis pattern contempter dreadnought with duel assault cannons and cyclone missile launcher 220
Dreadnought with plasma cannon and missile launcher 135

Now if I remember my math correctly that gets me to 1250 points. I am teaming up with a newby blood angels player and this is going to be my first 6th edition game. In the past this list has worked pretty well for me but now with more vehicles and new rules I need advise. I got 400 of 500 shared points to spend still. With games being more objective based would it be wise to run a terminator squad with a librarian or spend points more evenly towards something else? If at all possible I want to take a librarian because when I role for hellfire it has always been strength 8, ap 1-3, though that us subject to change of the dice gods hate me that day.

I need help by the 15 of this month (September 15) before the big game. As far as I have been toldy partner is bringing Dante, 2 teams of sanguinary guard, and 2 furiouso dreads with blood talons. Personally I don't think this list is going to fly (pun intended) but the dice gods are with him.

Again please leave a post I really need help. Thanks.

I would say plasma instead of melta because of the range and the above was right, you ARE Dark Angels.

Another note i would take attack bikes with your squads of bikers as they are only 50 points, have a multi-melta, are scoring because of sammael AND they split off so they can be snipped but if not they can scurry about taking objectives and blowing up tanks. it sucks to force someone to use all 12 or however many shots their tank has on one model. Not to mention if they fail with that they will have to use something else or let it continue to harass.

I just learned of a chaper master lias isaddon he can be found in IA 9 what he does is give +1 to covers saves, anyone with chaper tactics now have the stealth special rule, and after both armies are deployed but before the game begins he deals d6 wounds APnull to any unit, monster creature, squad or vehicle but cannot be an IC. In the case for vehicles he causes and auto glance. He can be taken as an ally for 140 points.

I'm considering this then giving him some scout snipers to cause a destruction and hopefully keep focus away from the main body of the army. What do you think?

Not sure if he really helps you all that much.

Especially at 1250 you are buying 2 HQ's.

I would suggest making both of those RW bike squads have plasma guns instead of melta guns. The range is much better and you can take out lighter armored vehicles still, as well as herd and shoot anything with a 2+ save relatively easily. Also, with the apothecary, that squad should rarely ever die from gets hot results. I'd add in two multi-melta attack bikes to take the position of the melta bikers in the squads. Send the 50pt MM attk bike up to a vehicle (within 12") and use it to destroy the armor. Then when/if the contents of said vehicle emerge, shoot it with your ravenwing squad(s). Should thin it down right quick. And if not, you will be at least 12" away and may not even get charged

Also, keep in mind that your bikers will pretty much always get a 3+ 5+ FNP or a 5+ 5+ FNP when they have the apothecary. They are pretty much immune to small arms fire unless you are attacking a blob of 20+ guardsmen or Orks or something and are within rapid fire range. Usually a bad ending no matter what haha.

As for the dreadnought, it's hard to say. I personally, would drop the plasma dreadnought, as you have plenty already fromt eh bikes (if you do the above strategy) and instead use it to get the attack bikes or some more land speeders. I'd also recommend using Sammael on his land speeder now, as he can move 12" fire all of his weapons at BS5, and is AV 14 on all but the rear. He is really good at harassing. Also, you can use him to try and snipe some flyers, as he has twin-linked heavy bolter and twin linked assault cannon. Should be able to get some 6's, and he will be very hard to hurt back. AV 14 with a 5+ jink is pretty great.

Also, don't be afraid to combat squad your bikers. It gives them greater flexibility (although i'd keep the apothecary squad with 6, as it benefits them more). Put one plasma in each mini squad and concentrate fire on what you need. OR put both plasma in one unit and have it zoom around popping hard to kill targets and use the three regular bikers to claim objectives (yay sammael).

-VardenV2

Ok keep in mind that after 1250 points I have an additional 400 points to spend, so attack bikes I can see your logic in using them rather than the dreadnought (cheaper too). I was going to take on the allies Lias Isaddor and the 5 scouts with snipers and camo cloaks for 255 points and subract it from the 400 leaving me with 145 points to spend elsewhere.

Sak, the CC phase is where bikers really shine man. I ran a 5 man Ravenwing team with a Chappy and tore up everything from a 3rd ed Hive Tyrant to a Dark Faildar Archon with Drazhar. They can hold their own in CC.

 Sirmauz wrote:
Sak, the CC phase is where bikers really shine man. I ran a 5 man Ravenwing team with a Chappy and tore up everything from a 3rd ed Hive Tyrant to a Dark Faildar Archon with Drazhar. They can hold their own in CC.

You can now only have 3 or 6 ravenwing bikers, with the chappy you are looking at well over 400 points. For a few impact hits, a few ap4 hits, a few more sword/fist, a few normal hits, with one model having an inv. save: sometimes chargining in with ravenwing is the right thing to do but just rarely.
Banner and apothecary squad with a chaplain may be all right. Though I am doubting sammael's ability now he has only 2 hull points :(

run him on his jetbike man, ignore the crap speeder. They did lose some with the 4th/5th ed rules, but they are still pretty powerful. Bikers and speeders cannot, true, be primary cc units, but with the t-5 and relentless you can, if you use em right, outflank, outmaneuver, and wreck most armies. Also, with 6th new rules on wound placement, it makes it easier for a bike squad to hold their own against similar numbers up to 2 times their number, because the front guys die first. If the opponent tries to shield his pfist guy or another high strength dude, he's screwed out of good hits. As with all units, some are great, some suck, but it all lays on HOW they are used along with WHAT they are. Above all else, ya gotta play to your style and what you like, even if it won't always win. The game's supposed to be fun, so mathhammering away or falling prey to the "this unit/army/weapon is the best" will detract from you enjoying it and your buds.

 Sirmauz wrote:
run him on his jetbike man, ignore the crap speeder. They did lose some with the 4th/5th ed rules, but they are still pretty powerful. Bikers and speeders cannot, true, be primary cc units, but with the t-5 and relentless you can, if you use em right, outflank, outmaneuver, and wreck most armies. Also, with 6th new rules on wound placement, it makes it easier for a bike squad to hold their own against similar numbers up to 2 times their number, because the front guys die first. If the opponent tries to shield his pfist guy or another high strength dude, he's screwed out of good hits. As with all units, some are great, some suck, but it all lays on HOW they are used along with WHAT they are. Above all else, ya gotta play to your style and what you like, even if it won't always win. The game's supposed to be fun, so mathhammering away or falling prey to the "this unit/army/weapon is the best" will detract from you enjoying it and your buds.

I agree about a lot of this, however I don't think that Ravenwing are a superb cc choice at all. Deathwing Terminators and character models are what are really going to dish out the pain here. HOWEVER, a strategy that alwasy works for me is to use the bikes superior firepower + mobility together to wear down your opponent and THEN charge in. Don't charge your bikes into a 10 man SM squad, you will lose your bikers effectively because they will take a long time to wipe the enemy squad. Instead, herd and dart around those squads for a turn or two, wear them down to about 3-5 models and then chrage them. If you assault you want to win in one turn and then consolidate away, or else you will get bogged down. I have seen my bikes pester grey hunters for turns and then wipe them with one charge but I have also been stuck in combat with 3 tau crisis suits for three turns becaus nobody can hurt the other X_X.

Sammael on his speeder is good against certain armies. He is good on his jetbike against others. Against an MEQ army I'd suggest his jetbike as a BS5 plasma cannon that can fly is pretty much the bane of anything with a strong armor save. His land speeder can be a good harassment unit and will either soak up a lot of fire (to try and glance him to death) freeign up your bikes, or will be ignored, leaving him with 7 med-high strength shots to obliterate hordes etc. Play with him and see which you like best, he make adapt better to a certain playstyle as you discover what he can do.

Also, keep in mind that your bikers can throw their krak grenades and use them in CC against monstrous creatures and vehicles. Again, pester with your plasma guns to take it down to 1-2 wounds, charge it with the Hammer of Wrath attacks and attach grenades. You may lose a bike or two, but you can easily take down a big critter. Especially if you give the sgt a melta bomb etc.

And yes, more speeders and attack bikes are always good.

-VardenV2

True, RW are NOT superb at CC, but using hit and run tactics, ala White Scars, makes them whittle ya down to nubs. And who can fight with nubs, anyway? The Black Knight sure couldn't! The main killer that I have against the Speeder armies is even with 2 HP they are still skimmers, and a good whack with a missile (that now work on flyers too) or a LC is gonna down em, even with Jink and cover saves. I'd rather force you to shoot 2 bikers rather than 1 speeder. Playstyle, like you say, is important. The tossing grenades is a great boon to em, and if you really worry about the bigguns, know your foe. Leman Russ? Screw em in the rear with a pfist or Melta. They roll to move, which never lets your opponent know how far they'll get. LR or Preds? Wonk em with a melta bomb, or just out pace em. Basilisks and ordnance? Charge them quick! You have a huge advantage (just like real life) with mobility and size, fitting behind terrain and through small gaps. Abuse this advantage, and tanks are doomed. Big critters/wound monsters like Wraithlords and Fex's are intimidating until you either a: kill their support, which destroys heavies because then you can effectively ignore them, (or in the wraithlord's case it shuts him down pretty much) or b: Plasma and Melta the piss outta them. It will work, but you must be patient. Remember, like a Sanguinary Guard army, you have alotta QUALITY, but low QUANTITY. You must not sacrifice anything without a great return. Pick on weaker units first, either making them flee off board or culling the numbers till they no longer can hold an objective(less than 50 % i believe.?) Big guys trying to harass you? Leave em in your prometheum exhaust as you blitz by and whack the leaders.

Well spoke, Sirmauz. Monility is key and bike armies take some practice t get used to. Now that you can measure everything it makes it easier to guage how far a big MC could potentially move to get you. On average 13" with a charge. Plus, those plasma and meltas can get a snap fire off before the biggun cahrges. HOWEVER, try as hard as possible to never get charged by bikes. You want to win and sweep in one turn.

I'd say play a few practice games against yourself or a willing opponent and try and hone your strategy down to what you feel is the best strengths of the army.

-VardenV2

Hell Yeah. Being legally able to premeasure means that the only time you should err in distance is if YOU screw up, not LUCk. And regardless of the army, always practice. you may think a force works one way only to discover what looks good on paper (Jervis from GW...) is NOT good in practice, or what seems impractical (me tank shocking daemons with an uparmored rhino and winning, killing 3 critters at close to 250 a pop for only 50 pts...) will work GREAT!

 Sirmauz wrote:
Hell Yeah. Being legally able to premeasure means that the only time you should err in distance is if YOU screw up, not LUCk. And regardless of the army, always practice. you may think a force works one way only to discover what looks good on paper (Jervis from GW...) is NOT good in practice, or what seems impractical (me tank shocking daemons with an uparmored rhino and winning, killing 3 critters at close to 250 a pop for only 50 pts...) will work GREAT!

EPIC! haha. Those daemons are like, "WTF? Seriously?" haha.

In another topic I am arguing over the use of the SB/pfist terminator. I personally like SB/Pfist termies, not only from a coolness perspective but from a practical and playstyle perspective. People are always like "Well, TH/SS are better. Always take them." That leads to every terminator being the same and being countered easier because everyone expects it. They don't expect your terminators to shoot back and, frankly, they always get the same 2+ save against small arms fire, which is 98% of the game's shooting basically. If nothing else, sometimes takign soemthign wacky like that is enough to make your opponent stop and think for a second, when you already have your strategy figured out.

This can apply to your army above of course. If you like Sammael one way, use him that way etc. If you like melta bikes, go for it, tey are still OK. Plasma is better and you are DARK ANGELS so it also fits the fluff. It's nice when the "cheese" or "best" thing also lines up with your taste and fluff. That's when you lvoe your army haha. AKA DW termies getting that 2+ against everythign but AP2 power weaps now happy happy dark angels haha

-VardenV2

Heh. Yeah, Var brings up a great final point. Psywar. Psychological warfare is a powerful friend and a deadly foe. It's the reason our modern military uses snipers and big explosive things. You could surely get the job done with little fuss and less bang, but imagine the sphincter-loosening effect when a 22000 lb. bomb goes off a few miles away. Same in the tabletop. Your opponent disrespects a unit? Show him the error of his ways by switching up your playstyle with them or by how they are equipped. A real douchy move I throw out is to run my Scout Snipers, and when folks giggle, run a second Camo Cloak squad with a HB. Giggle at that you sumbitches. A blast wounding on 2+ makes everyone go from haha to oh crap kill em!

 VardenV2 wrote:
I would suggest making both of those RW bike squads have plasma guns instead of melta guns. The range is much better and you can take out lighter armored vehicles still, as well as herd and shoot anything with a 2+ save relatively easily. Also, with the apothecary, that squad should rarely ever die from gets hot results. I'd add in two multi-melta attack bikes to take the position of the melta bikers in the squads. Send the 50pt MM attk bike up to a vehicle (within 12") and use it to destroy the armor. Then when/if the contents of said vehicle emerge, shoot it with your ravenwing squad(s). Should thin it down right quick. And if not, you will be at least 12" away and may not even get charged

Also, keep in mind that your bikers will pretty much always get a 3+ 5+ FNP or a 5+ 5+ FNP when they have the apothecary. They are pretty much immune to small arms fire unless you are attacking a blob of 20+ guardsmen or Orks or something and are within rapid fire range. Usually a bad ending no matter what haha.

As for the dreadnought, it's hard to say. I personally, would drop the plasma dreadnought, as you have plenty already fromt eh bikes (if you do the above strategy) and instead use it to get the attack bikes or some more land speeders. I'd also recommend using Sammael on his land speeder now, as he can move 12" fire all of his weapons at BS5, and is AV 14 on all but the rear. He is really good at harassing. Also, you can use him to try and snipe some flyers, as he has twin-linked heavy bolter and twin linked assault cannon. Should be able to get some 6's, and he will be very hard to hurt back. AV 14 with a 5+ jink is pretty great.

Also, don't be afraid to combat squad your bikers. It gives them greater flexibility (although i'd keep the apothecary squad with 6, as it benefits them more). Put one plasma in each mini squad and concentrate fire on what you need. OR put both plasma in one unit and have it zoom around popping hard to kill targets and use the three regular bikers to claim objectives (yay sammael).

-VardenV2

Thats all you need for RW, just bikes and bikes, OH and some speeders lol.
Plasma troops, MM Attack bikes, missle speeder good with HB for sniping i like it better then melta.
tac squad and good to go, just keep distance and shoot.

Side note: New DA codex should give them skilled riders USR....

 Diezel wrote:

 VardenV2 wrote:
I would suggest making both of those RW bike squads have plasma guns instead of melta guns. The range is much better and you can take out lighter armored vehicles still, as well as herd and shoot anything with a 2+ save relatively easily. Also, with the apothecary, that squad should rarely ever die from gets hot results. I'd add in two multi-melta attack bikes to take the position of the melta bikers in the squads. Send the 50pt MM attk bike up to a vehicle (within 12") and use it to destroy the armor. Then when/if the contents of said vehicle emerge, shoot it with your ravenwing squad(s). Should thin it down right quick. And if not, you will be at least 12" away and may not even get charged

Also, keep in mind that your bikers will pretty much always get a 3+ 5+ FNP or a 5+ 5+ FNP when they have the apothecary. They are pretty much immune to small arms fire unless you are attacking a blob of 20+ guardsmen or Orks or something and are within rapid fire range. Usually a bad ending no matter what haha.

As for the dreadnought, it's hard to say. I personally, would drop the plasma dreadnought, as you have plenty already fromt eh bikes (if you do the above strategy) and instead use it to get the attack bikes or some more land speeders. I'd also recommend using Sammael on his land speeder now, as he can move 12" fire all of his weapons at BS5, and is AV 14 on all but the rear. He is really good at harassing. Also, you can use him to try and snipe some flyers, as he has twin-linked heavy bolter and twin linked assault cannon. Should be able to get some 6's, and he will be very hard to hurt back. AV 14 with a 5+ jink is pretty great.

Also, don't be afraid to combat squad your bikers. It gives them greater flexibility (although i'd keep the apothecary squad with 6, as it benefits them more). Put one plasma in each mini squad and concentrate fire on what you need. OR put both plasma in one unit and have it zoom around popping hard to kill targets and use the three regular bikers to claim objectives (yay sammael).

-VardenV2

Thats all you need for RW, just bikes and bikes, OH and some speeders lol.
Plasma troops, MM Attack bikes, missle speeder good with HB for sniping i like it better then melta.
tac squad and good to go, just keep distance and shoot.

Side note: New DA codex should give them skilled riders USR....

DOPE! Also, I heard that potentially DA are having a "plasma expertise" type rule where they can re-roll overheat armor saves or something? That may be someone BSing but w/e. If that is true then DEFINITELY take plasma haha. I mena, my suggestion would be to jus tmagnetize your bikers so they can have flamers, plasma, or melta. It saves a lot of problems. Plus if you are playing Ork, use flamer, MEQ, use plasma, mech guard use melta etc.

Also, remember to not be afraid of CC with bikes. You just have to play it very safely and you will usually win. Get a unit to break and ride them down in one turn. You will almost always be able to sweep them with bikes or at least consolidate far away from any danger afterwards.

As for the typhoon launchers, I personally would use a mix of MM and HB add-ons. The rockets and MM can zoom up to 24-12" away and shoot a lot of anti tank. Then use the HB/ rocket combo to kill the contents. That's pretty much how a lot of ravenwing will work haha. Crack the can and then shoot the contents that pour out. And then run it over and toss grenades and chainswords at it if it's still not dead haha.

-VardenV2

We should find out on either Saturday or the 18th next month about them, my buddy that runs the FLGS I frequent said thats the next drop date for the codex or WD.