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What are your thoughts on the thousands sons squads in sixth Ed? Troop choices are beginning to shine, with objective missions. And for a general troop choice, thousand sons squads seem to hold their own, 3+ save, 4+ inv... Pretty good for sitting on missions right? 20 space marine attacks average out to 1.67 thousand sons dead . That's pretty good?

Just read about them in the chaos marine codex, as I'm trying to get more knowledge on other armies (I'm a grey knight player) and when I stumbled across these guys, I thought "hmm maybe??"

People carry on about flyrants being good, fair point, they are potent, but for something quite similar to it, a winged Deamon prince has similar stats and is only 130 points.... Worth considering? Looking for fun but competitive allies, 2 Deamon princes with wings, 2 squads of 7 thousand sons marines, Pts - 790..... A potential ally? I'm running purifiers with hammers and physcannons... and dread knights with teleporters and heavy incinerators....

Man5ki3 wrote:
What are your thoughts on the thousands sons squads in sixth Ed? Troop choices are beginning to shine, with objective missions. And for a general troop choice, thousand sons squads seem to hold their own, 3+ save, 4+ inv... Pretty good for sitting on missions right? 20 space marine attacks average out to 1.67 thousand sons dead . That's pretty good?

do the math on normal marines

When your using 1k sons, if you use your power armor your just an expensive marine still T4, still 3+, suddenly 23points not 16

Also- WAIT NEW CODEX FOR PATIENCE HAVE

1k sons have a 4up inv.... That's their advantage


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Not to mention their bolters have inferno bolts, which grants AP3, rather then AP5.....?????

1K sons are good but if holding objectives is what you want then go for the plague marines.
1k are also a bit too expensive (as with the other dedicated marines) but if you just want a Tzeentch ally then give normal marines the mark of Tzeentch. It gives them a +5 invul. and it is much cheaper.
Also if you had Demon Princes it would be wise to give them a mark of chaos, because you want 1K sons, it would be wise to give them both marks of Tzeentch and give them the psychic powers warptime and bolt of change.
So doing the math (unless I made a boo boo) you can have 2 demon princes with wings, Tzeentch marks, warptime and bolt of change. and 2 squads of 1K sons with the warptime power. Thats only 772 points.

Man5ki3 wrote:
1k sons have a 4up inv.... That's their advantage


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Not to mention their bolters have inferno bolts, which grants AP3, rather then AP5.....?????

exactly.
What I'm saying is if you shoot them with AP3 or better weapons- YES they have an advantage. IF you shoot them with anything AP4,5,6 or- then they are exactly like normal marines.

So- Normal marine, being shot by another marine
hits on 3+
wounds on 4+
Marine takes 3+ save.

1k son being shot by another marine
hits on 3+
wounds on 4+
1k son takes a 3+ save.

Can you see there is no difference? In your OP you said 20 space marine attacks average out to 1.67 thousand sons dead. 20 space marine attacks average out to 1.67 space marines dead as well, BUT 1k sons cost 23points, NOT 16. So in your given example of how much tougher they are, you have shown they are exactly as tough as marines. Except more expensive. Do you see what I'm saying here? That 1k sons are BETTER at range vs MEQ's, and better at taking AP1,2,3 fire, but are WORSE against ap 4,5,6, and -, because they cost more.

If a model takes an armpit save of 3+ (normal marine) and fails, it's dead?

If a 1k marine takes a 3+ and fails, it still has a further 4+ save from the inv?


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A normal marine Unit being shot at by 20 shots, suffers an average of 3.33....... A 1k sons unit suffers 1.67.... As they have the inv save also ....

Man5ki3 wrote:
If a model takes an armpit save of 3+ (normal marine) and fails, it's dead?

If a 1k marine takes a 3+ and fails, it still has a further 4+ save from the inv?


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A normal marine Unit being shot at by 20 shots, suffers an average of 3.33....... A 1k sons unit suffers 1.67.... As they have the inv save also ....

A model gets one save at the highest allowable value, if that fails then too bad.

You can't take multiple saves. You can only take the save with the highest value. If you fail that save, the model dies.

You might want to read your rulebook a bit more closely, as this is all clearly stated.

Probably confusing 40k saves with fantasy...

Thousand Sons are nasty to fight. About the best I've done is not shooting them, but assaulting them, as they are the only pistol/close combat weapon-less chaos marines. Shooting them just makes them angry, and now you've wasted shots.

Man5ki3 wrote:
If a model takes an armpit save of 3+ (normal marine) and fails, it's dead?

If someone sounds like they are using a different ruleset to you, maybe check the BRB first


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Man5ki3 wrote:
People carry on about flyrants being good, fair point, they are potent, but for something quite similar to it, a winged Deamon prince has similar stats and is only 130 points.... Worth considering? Looking for fun but competitive allies, 2 Deamon princes with wings, 2 squads of 7 thousand sons marines, Pts - 790..... A potential ally? I'm running purifiers with hammers and physcannons... and dread knights with teleporters and heavy incinerators....

o_O you can only have 1 HQ in an allies detachment. And you can't ally GK with chaos o____O Do you have the rulebook?

The echo'ing silence of someone who done fethed up, but ain't gonna come and go "my bad!"

So 1ksons weren't too shabby before. A bit difficult to get the most out of, but not bad in their own right.

And then 6th ed came by. No more by-unit cover, the addition of focus fire, and cover itself getting worse means those Ap3 bolters just got more useful. All of said things also makes a 4++ that more useful.

Furthermore, 1ksons were cruddy in close combat, but assault took a big hit this edition, so no biggs. Then add to that the fact that you must take a sorcerer who can now take LOADS of new goodies makes them go from somewhat questionable to "booyah".

Pretty much the only strike against them is that they didn't get anything from the change to rapid fire, but that's more because everybody else finally caught up to 1ksons, rather than 1ksons falling behind.

In any case, though, as Jihallah notes, just wait for the new codex.

Imho the aspiring sorcerer got really handy. As he has MoT he can use Warpcharge 2 Powers, so buy him Doombolt, exchange it for a roll on the Telepathy-table and if you do not get Hallucination, Mind Control or Invisibility pick Shriek.