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Hey, So i have a tournament at my local store this weekend and i was just building a list to use in this tourney, and was wondering if anyone could review it for me?

HQ:
Wolf Lord - 265pts
-Thunder-wolf
-frost axe
-storm shield
-runic armour
-saga of the warrior born
-wolf tooth necklace

Rune Priest - 130pts
-runic armour
-chooser of the slain
-Living lightning, murderous hurricane or jaws


TROOPS:
10 grey hunters - 205pts
-standard
-2x plasma
-drop pod

10 grey hunters - 205pts
-standard
-2x plasma
-drop pod

10 grey hunters - 200pts
-standard
-2x melta
-drop pod


FAST ATTACK:
Thunder-wolf cavalry (unit of 3) - 175pts
-power fist

HEAVY SUPPORT:
5 Long Fangs - 120pts
-2x missile
-1x plasma
-1x heavy bolter

5 Long Fangs - 120pts
-2x missile
-1x plasma
-1x heavy bolter


TOTAL: - 1420pts

im not sure what i should use to fill in the remaining points, any suggestions?











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anyone?


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anyone at all?

Looks good. Generally when people don't respond it means that there isn't really much that needs doing to the list. Couple of small tweaks though.

The first isn't really a tweak more an opinion on a choice. For your Rune Priest I'd go with Jaws of the World Wolf over Murderous Hurricane. Murderous is still good for hordes but the fact that you now get armour saves against it hurt a little bit. Whereas Jaws is just full on nasty.

After that, I'd probably swap the Plasma cannon and the Heavy bolter on each of the Long Fang Packs for more Missile Launchers. That is the standard way in which Long Fangs are laid out for tournament play, cheap and versatile. Then you could try and sneak in another pack of Long Fangs. With Missiles again of course.

One thing that I would drop though is the Wolftooth Necklace. Your Wolf Lord is hitting most things on a 3+ anyway with his high weapon skill so these points would probably be better spent on Long Fangs.

Hope this is useful.

Where are you going to deploy your RP? If he's going with the long fangs I would drop the Runic armor.
Your wolf lord could use some extra doggies to soak up some S10 hits that could instakill your TWC.
The TWC units could use at least one SS.
As said above, I also would run all ML in my LFs.

This is a pretty solid list, but I have some comments:

Wolf Lord
1) A power fist is a much better choice than a frost axe. Why take S7 AP2 striking at initiative 1, when you could have S10 AP2 striking at initiative 1 for the same points cost? The only reason you would ever take a frost weapon (blade or axe) is if you also took a pistol with it to get an extra attack. But you've taken a storm shield instead.

2) Your wolf lord does NOT need a wolf tooth necklace. He has a weapon skill 6, so he's already hitting just about everything on a 3+ anyway. So the only time the WTN will give you any benefit at all is if you just happen to get into close combat with another wolf lord. But even then...is it worth 10 points to get the 3+ to Hit against him instead of a 4+? Spend the 10 points on something else.

3) You should probably take Saga of the Bear instead of Saga of the Warrior Born and here's why : Your wolf lord will only very very rarely fight two rounds of close combat in a row. If you attack troops and kill 5 or 6 of them (so that you would get 5 or 6 extra attacks the next round) then that squad is probably either already dead, almost dead (1 or 2 models left), or running away. In any of those cases, Saga of the Warrior Born will do you no good because you'll have nothing to use those extra attacks on. On the other hand, Saga of the Bear will give you the protection you need from wounds from S10 weapons (ie demolisher cannon, dreadnought CC, etc...). Avoiding instant death will be particularly handy when fighting a challenge.

Long Fangs :
You should put the plasma cannons and heavy bolters together in the same squad and let the other squad be all missile launchers. That way, all of the weapons in each squad have the same range and same purpose (ie..anti-infantry or anti-tank).

Extra points :
If you drop the WTN from the wolf lord, then you'll have 90 points left over. There are several ideas for what to spend them on.

1) Lone Wolf + Chainfist, Storm Shield, Terminator Armor (85 points) and the extra 5 can go for a wolf tail talisman on your wolf lord.
2) Razorbacks for your long fangs (40 points each coming with TL heavy bolters).
3) Upgrades for your long fangs.
4) Mark of the Wulfen for one or more of your Grey Hunters.
5) Drop the Chooser of the slain from your rune priest so that you have 100 left over and get a wolf priest or another rune priest
6) Drop the Chooser of the slain from your rune priest so that you have 100 left over and get an Aegis Defense line + Quad Gun.
7) Storm shields for your TWC.
8) A unit of scouts with a meltagun
9) 1 or 2 more TWC.

Thanks for all the responses,

@Rampage, thanks al ot. but you only get 1 missile in the devastator pack and im not super rich and i dont know where to buy more just by themselves.

@Sickening, im placing my RP in the LF's to bombarde with LL from unlimited range.

@Grugknuckle (nice name), a frost axe doesn't make you initiative 1, the WL will still be initiative 5, so thats why i'm taking that instead of a power-fist which would make me initiative 1, which i don't want.
Think i might take out the WTL and change saga to bear, i was having a hard time thinking about whether or not to take it because i normally take it on most WL's.

With the long fangs, i think that's a really good idea, but im not sure what good razorbacks would be for long fangs as i will only be playing on 48" GW standard tables.

Lone Wolves? are they worth it? i know they're relatively cheap for what they are but it would probably just die instantly and get focused.

if i take a lone wolf, how would it get into battle quickley?
but otherwise that lonewolf would work really well, but i've been thinking, would it be a good idea to take twin wolf claws on the lone wolf, or should i just take the chainfist?

Yeah, for the missile thing I generally scrounge around, see if any of your friends have any missile launcher toting marines (like the black reach one) that they don't want, and then paint them Space Wolfy.

As for the Frost Axe, I'm pretty certain that Grugknuckle is correct. I think that in the FAQ it tells you that a Frost Axe counts as unwieldy, and so makes you strike at I1, so it's best to take a power fist. I had this conundrum. I wanted to take a Wolf Lord and I wanted the AP2 but giving him that would also make him strike at I1, so I thought I'd have to give him Saga of the Bear to save him from S10 like other S5 things with TH or Power Fists. But then you don't get the horde killing goodness that Warrior Born gives you, it's a tough one.

@khrolek You have to read the Space Wolves FAQ for 6th Edition.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2420319a_Space_Wolves_6th_Ed_V1.pdf

Frost Blades and Frost Axes are covered on the third page in the middle of the left side.

Just as a general rule however, neither of the frost weapons are worth their points cost because there are other, more effective options available with the same points cost or less.

For example, a wolf claw costs 5 points less than a frost blade. Both are AP3 at initiative, but the frost blade is +1 strength and the wolf claw can re-roll to Hit or to Wound.

Let's compare their effects. Suppose you give your thunderwolf lord one of these weapons. Each attack has the same chance to hit your target, so the difference only comes up when you roll to wound. Let's say you attack a model with toughness 4. On your thunderwolf lord, a frost blade has strength 6 and needs a 2+ to wound. That means there are 5 ways to wound out of 6 total ways to roll the die. So

Chance to wound with Frost Blade = 5/6 = 83.33%

On the other hand, the Wolf Claw has strength 5 on your wolf lord and needs a 3+ to wound a T4 model. But the claw gets to re-roll to Wound. Therefore

Chance to wound with Wolf Claw = (chance to wound on first roll) + (chance first roll failed) * (chance to wound on second roll)

= (66%) + (33%)(66%)
= 88%

So the wolf claw is slightly better but costs 5 points less. However, if you do this same calculation on a stock wolf lord with strength 4 instead of strength 5, you'll see that the wolf claw is MUCH better (66% chance with frost blade vs. 75% chance with wolf claw) and still costs 5 points less.

Khrolek wrote:

im placing my RP in the LF's to bombarde with LL from unlimited range.

Also consider taking the primaris power from the Divination discipline and using it to give re-rolls to Hit with your Long Fangs.

With the long fangs, i think that's a really good idea, but im not sure what good razorbacks would be for long fangs as i will only be playing on 48" GW standard tables.

With 80 points, you can afford either 2 razorbacks with twin linked heavy bolters (40 points each) or 1 razorback with twin linked lascannon (75 points). Which option is best depends upon who your opponent is.

Lone Wolves? are they worth it? i know they're relatively cheap for what they are but it would probably just die instantly and get focused.
if i take a lone wolf, how would it get into battle quickley?
but otherwise that lonewolf would work really well, but i've been thinking, would it be a good idea to take twin wolf claws on the lone wolf, or should i just take the chainfist?

Actually, you want your opponent to kill your lone wolf - after you kill a bunch of his stuff with it. I'd personally go with the chainfist / storm shield set up because he's a serious threat to just about everything (tanks, infantry, walkers, characters). The storm shield + eternal warrior + feel no pain gives you the survivability to get into close combat. If you do twin wolf claws, you're only a threat to infantry with 3+ (or worse) armor. You can't put him in a vehicle, but you just deploy him as far forward as possible and run with him every every shooting phase until you get close enough to charge.

@Grugknuckle,
I am so upset, so so so so, upset.
Frost axe's used to be the best option for melle weapons to take in the Space Wolf army, and now they're completely, 100% useless...

Would it be worth it taking a Wolf Claw and a storm shield, or what other weapon should i take with the Wolf Lord seeing as a frost axe is out of the question (and i don't want tobe initiative 1)?

I'm really new to the 6th ed rules, as i started playing again when 6th ed came out, and i literally just found out about the new magic (or psychic) schools that Librarians and Rune Priests can take.

...Thanks for everything, but i just can't believe that GW would screw us SW players over so bad, this is really dissapointing.

I don't exactly play sw but everyone at my local gameworkshop store does >.>, and I've honestly found running 2 plasma cannons with 2 missile launcers in each unit to be completely devastating with split fire as they can take out 2 of my rhinos and still have the fire power to eradicate my units inside them off the field. so just something to possibly think about. oh and....
TW CAV ARE SO OP >.< the only way to kill them is with focus fire for a turn otherwise youll be sorry you didnt xD

Thanks Dezstiny,
today i went into my local store and had a game, all be it 1000pts but the core frame work for this list was there...
and i absolutley raped, the TWC with WL thundered down the side and demolished a unit of grey hunters and bloodclaws, the RP with the LF bombarded his rhinos and blew them up, proceeding to kill the grey hunters in them.
a funny moment was when he snap fired when i went to charge him, and he killed the 1W left TWC, that was pretty kool.

Thanks again for all your input guys, and i now own a copy of the new rulebook so i can look up what the nerfbat has added to its victim list,
Khrolek

Khrolek wrote:
@Grugknuckle,
Would it be worth it taking a Wolf Claw and a storm shield, or what other weapon should i take with the Wolf Lord seeing as a frost axe is out of the question (and i don't want tobe initiative 1)?

Yes. This is how I would run a Thunderwolf lord.

I am so upset, so so so so, upset.
Frost axe's used to be the best option for melle weapons to take in the Space Wolf army, and now they're completely, 100% useless...
...Thanks for everything, but i just can't believe that GW would screw us SW players over so bad, this is really dissapointing.

Well they're not exactly useless, you just have to know how to use them. The thing about frost weapons is that you can take them with a bolt pistol (or plasma pistol) and get an extra attack. But you don't get an extra attack for the pistol with specialist weapons like a wolf claw or power fist. When you take that into account, then the frost weapons do have a roll. You just need to understand the best way to use them.

For example, a single wolf claw is very closely comparable to a frost blade + pistol against models with toughness 4 or less. But against models with tougness 5 or more, the extra attack from the frost blade gives it an edge over the claw. However, the FB still costs more.

Similarly, the frost axe + pistol is actually better than a power fist against AP2 models with toughness 5 or less. But for higher tougnesses and vehicles, the fist is better.

The only problem is that if you take a pistol, then you cant take a storm shield or a combi-weapon. So you're limiting your ability to shoot (or take an invulnerable save) when you do this.

A long time ago I used to play a wolf lord in runic armor with a frost blade a plasma pistol and a belt of russ. But now, I would just take a wolf priest since he gets his crozius arcanum and 4+ invulnerable for free.

Thanks again,
in the game i played mentioned before i took the lord with a frost blade using the actual axe weapon model (i argued that an axe is technically still a blade so it could be taken as either, and they bought it)
but i dont think ill take a frost axe, i just think ill take a frost blade and have the powerfist in the unit of TWC for heavier things.