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According to Lexicanum:

Space Wolf Scouts are not assigned to any of the Great Companies. They instead answer directly to the Great Wolf and are under his sole command unless assigned to a Wolf Lord and his company on an as needed basis.

But in the codex, on page 16, under Erik Morkai it states:

His company boasts a great many Wolf Scouts, fellow veterans who appreciate their master's taciturn demeanour and no-nonsense approach.

So, are Wolf Scouts purely under the command of the Great Wolf, and used as "guns for hire" style add-ons? Or are they actually part of a company?

Wolf Scouts aren't a part of the Great Wolf's company anymore IIRC. That information is from the previous codex.

All right, that makes sense! Thanks for the speedy reply!

the correct answer is Fenris

As for how Wolf Scouts differ from normal SM Scouts...

Codex marines usually start as scouts, learning on the job and eventually advancing to full battle-brother.

Wolf Scouts are not necessarily the fresh new guys, they're picked from those that are identified as not working well in a pack. Antisocial loners that like to drink alone if they drink at all.

Spetulhu wrote:
As for how Wolf Scouts differ from normal SM Scouts...

Codex marines usually start as scouts, learning on the job and eventually advancing to full battle-brother.

Wolf Scouts are not necessarily the fresh new guys, they're picked from those that are identified as not working well in a pack. Antisocial loners that like to drink alone if they drink at all.

This is false.

Codex Marines--note: CODEX MARINES--all start as Scouts.

The most notable Chapter where this is not true is the Black Templars, and they are not Codex by any measure.

The make-up of "normal SM Scouts" is actually just as close to Wolf Scouts as anything else. They're veteran troops, not guys out on their first day trip.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
As for how Wolf Scouts differ from normal SM Scouts...

Codex marines usually start as scouts, learning on the job and eventually advancing to full battle-brother.

Wolf Scouts are not necessarily the fresh new guys, they're picked from those that are identified as not working well in a pack. Antisocial loners that like to drink alone if they drink at all.

This is false.

Codex Marines--note: CODEX MARINES--all start as Scouts.

The most notable Chapter where this is not true is the Black Templars, and they are not Codex by any measure.

The make-up of "normal SM Scouts" is actually just as close to Wolf Scouts as anything else. They're veteran troops, not guys out on their first day trip.

You just contradicted yourself there.

Regular codex scouts are not veterans. The are the newest members of the chapter. This is basically the same for Black Templars except the training is different.

Wolf scouts on the otherhand, are infact veterans.

Correct. CODEX marines start their careers as scouts. In fact, I believe this is because they don't have the full Black Carapace interface and hence cannot yet wear full Astartes power armour.

Space Wolves are not Codex marines, and are, as has been noted, recruited from among those whose temperament doesn't mesh with working in a normal pack of Wolves.


Edit: Stupid double post. Ignore.

Well sometimes a daddy wolf scout and a mommy wolf scout love each other very much and...

 DeffDred wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
As for how Wolf Scouts differ from normal SM Scouts...

Codex marines usually start as scouts, learning on the job and eventually advancing to full battle-brother.

Wolf Scouts are not necessarily the fresh new guys, they're picked from those that are identified as not working well in a pack. Antisocial loners that like to drink alone if they drink at all.

This is false.

Codex Marines--note: CODEX MARINES--all start as Scouts.

The most notable Chapter where this is not true is the Black Templars, and they are not Codex by any measure.

The make-up of "normal SM Scouts" is actually just as close to Wolf Scouts as anything else. They're veteran troops, not guys out on their first day trip.

You just contradicted yourself there.

Where?

Regular codex scouts are not veterans. The are the newest members of the chapter.

Negative. This is not true, through and through.

The 10th Company is not solely consistent of trainees. There are members of the 10th Company who have served their time in the other Companies and now train the recruits. They also can be (and in cases like the Raven Guard/Dark Angels, often are) organized into groups of veteran Astartes Scouts who operate like the Wolf Scouts.

This is basically the same for Black Templars except the training is different.

Except not.

Wolf scouts on the otherhand, are infact veterans.

Where did I say the Wolf Scouts are not veterans?

I said that there is a misunderstanding which persists that the regular Astartes Chapters maintain no "veteran" Scouts. The existence of Naaman, Cyrus, and Telion disproves this.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Regular codex scouts are not veterans. The are the newest members of the chapter.

Negative. This is not true, through and through.

The 10th Company is not solely consistent of trainees. There are members of the 10th Company who have served their time in the other Companies and now train the recruits. They also can be (and in cases like the Raven Guard/Dark Angels, often are) organized into groups of veteran Astartes Scouts who operate like the Wolf Scouts.

Can you report people for being pernickerty? Ok, fine. Let's be deliberately anal. Ahem.

"Regular codex scouts are not veterans." Absolutely true, through and through. Scout SERGEANTS are veterans.

I've never read anything that states that regular codex chapters have 'Elite' scout squads. If a chapter does have them, then they're not a regular, codex chapter. Please state your sources (the ones that say Dark Angels have organised groups of veteran scouts). All the examples you cite (Naaman, etc) are Scout Sergeants. All of whom are veterans anyway.

Forge World's Imperial Armour Volume 8: "Raid on Kastorel-Novem" makes explicit mention of the Scout squad part for the Raven Guard.

Naaman in "Purging of Kadillus" makes a throw away line to the fact that he is not the only member of the Dark Angels "veteran" Scout Cadre who are privy to the knowledge of the Deathwing/Ravenwing and that they do gather in force when they cannot enlighten their charges with the knowledge of the Fallen. It's maybe halfway through when he's discussing such things with Sergeant Aquila during the scouting expedition to the wastes.

And if you're wanting to get anal, one of Naaman's Scout "trainees" is an individual who has served in four different campaigns.
Not "battles" or "engagements". Campaigns.

And not all Scout Sergeants are veterans, by the by. The seniormost Scout of each squad is considered to be the Sergeant, excepting instances such as Naaman, Telion, Cyrus, etc. Those individuals have served long enough to be given free rein to choose which squad they will lead, and effectively are second only to the Master of Recruits.

If those individuals wanted to organize the sergeants into a single squad to fight, they can do it with nobody but the Master of Recruits OR Chapter Master able to say no...and given the leeway that Scouts are given to begin with, the likelihood of that happening is practically nonexistent.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
As for how Wolf Scouts differ from normal SM Scouts...

Codex marines usually start as scouts, learning on the job and eventually advancing to full battle-brother.

Wolf Scouts are not necessarily the fresh new guys, they're picked from those that are identified as not working well in a pack. Antisocial loners that like to drink alone if they drink at all.

This is false.

Codex Marines--note: CODEX MARINES--all start as Scouts.

The most notable Chapter where this is not true is the Black Templars, and they are not Codex by any measure.

The make-up of "normal SM Scouts" is actually just as close to Wolf Scouts as anything else. They're veteran troops, not guys out on their first day trip.

You just contradicted yourself there.

Where?

Codex Marines--note: CODEX MARINES--all start as Scouts...They're veteran troops, not guys out on their first day trip.

 streamdragon wrote:
Well sometimes a daddy wolf scout and a mommy wolf scout love each other very much and...

I don't have the current Codex: SW, but they used to be the complete opposite of Vanilla SM.

Vanilla SM (except Dark Templar) - Scouts were new recruits with veterans leading them. Vets showed recruits the ropes.

Space Wolf Scouts used to be the final stage of a Tactical squad. The back ground used to say that SW Tactical Squads became Long Fangs as their squad dwindled. The reason they could shoot 2 different targets was experience and working together so long as a unit. The name Long Fang originally came from the genetic flaw that SW teeth kept growing. So the older guys have longer teeth.

Thats why Young Bloods had bigger units then tactical units. They were the start of the whole process.

A SW scout was a loner because he was what came after the Long Fang unit dwindled to one guy. So he was actually the most experienced marine from a tactical squad formed a long long time ago. They actually started getting feral (reason for antisocial behavior), but were capable of amazing solo scouting expeditions, going for long periods in enemy territories scouting alone.

SW command structure was always different from other Chapters, and one of the reasons they got a lot of grief from other Chapters.

Its true Dark Angels scouts are just neonates. But because ours are Elite choices and BS and WS 4 our new guys are better then your new guys. And now the last guy from a pack is called a lone wolf not scouts.

 ArbitorIan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Regular codex scouts are not veterans. The are the newest members of the chapter.

Negative. This is not true, through and through.

The 10th Company is not solely consistent of trainees. There are members of the 10th Company who have served their time in the other Companies and now train the recruits. They also can be (and in cases like the Raven Guard/Dark Angels, often are) organized into groups of veteran Astartes Scouts who operate like the Wolf Scouts.

Can you report people for being pernickerty? Ok, fine. Let's be deliberately anal. Ahem.

"Regular codex scouts are not veterans." Absolutely true, through and through. Scout SERGEANTS are veterans.

I've never read anything that states that regular codex chapters have 'Elite' scout squads. If a chapter does have them, then they're not a regular, codex chapter. Please state your sources (the ones that say Dark Angels have organised groups of veteran scouts). All the examples you cite (Naaman, etc) are Scout Sergeants. All of whom are veterans anyway.

It's been suggested from time to time that in cases where needed, fully initiated Space Marines can serve as scouts. It's just not represented in the tabletop game. However, if the Codex Astartes is actually the peerless tome of military wisdom that it's supposed to be, and not an "If A, Then B" instruction manual for dummies like certain (bad) authors write it to be, then it stands to reason that there would be provisions for outfitting the Marines as the commander saw was the best fit for the given strategic and tactical situation. Marines just have their "typical" mission profiles, and being a sneaky dickbag isn't really one of them. Scouts are probably typically used for recon and target identification, and not for raids/surgical strikes. But you never know when you'll have to adapt your strategy to a given situation.

People have to remember that the Codex covers a lot of different things. When a chapter is referred to as being a Codex Chapter, it means they adhere to the recruiting, training, and basic organizational structure of the Codex Astartes. That's why the Blood Angels are considered a Codex Chapter, even though they have some specialist organizations to account for their flawed gene seed. Because while the Death Company isn't a standard unit, and the Blood Angels commanders may prefer assault formations, they still likely adhere to the tenets of the Codex when it comes to how they select, indoctrinate, and train their recruits, as well as in their basic organizational structure.

Phydox wrote:
Space Wolf Scouts used to be the final stage of a Tactical squad. The back ground used to say that SW Tactical Squads became Long Fangs as their squad dwindled. The reason they could shoot 2 different targets was experience and working together so long as a unit. The name Long Fang originally came from the genetic flaw that SW teeth kept growing. So the older guys have longer teeth.

Thats why Young Bloods had bigger units then tactical units. They were the start of the whole process.

A SW scout was a loner because he was what came after the Long Fang unit dwindled to one guy. So he was actually the most experienced marine from a tactical squad formed a long long time ago. They actually started getting feral (reason for antisocial behavior), but were capable of amazing solo scouting expeditions, going for long periods in enemy territories scouting alone.

Wrong. Although the dwindling squads part and the reason for Long Fang names is true, Wolf Scouts are not older even than Long Fangs. Long Fangs who survive as the only living member of their squad will be inducted either to the Wolf Guard or have lived so long and acquired so much experience that they're all set to become Wolf Priests and train the next generation of Blood Claws.
SW scouts have, ever since 3rd edition always been loners by temperament, not by age. They're usually identified while still Blood Claws, and rather than promoted to Grey Hunter when the rest of the pack is, are inducted into the scouts.

Wolf Scouts cannot be part of Great Companies. Great Companies form from several packs deciding to follow one of the wolf lords. Whe a lord dies, the packs in his company may not join his replacement's company, and go off to follow one of the other lords. Since wolf scouts do not come in regular packs, they can't properly join Great Companies. Erik Morkai just gets more of them on an informal basis.

ARBITORIAN: Codex Blood Angels 3e might be a thing.

pelicaniforce wrote:
Wolf Scouts cannot be part of Great Companies. Great Companies form from several packs deciding to follow one of the wolf lords. Whe a lord dies, the packs in his company may not join his replacement's company, and go off to follow one of the other lords. Since wolf scouts do not come in regular packs, they can't properly join Great Companies. Erik Morkai just gets more of them on an informal basis.

ARBITORIAN: Codex Blood Angels 3e might be a thing.

Wolf scouts do come in regular packs...
It's like a normal pack except it consists of wolf scouts...
The marines in a fallen wolf lord's great company vote on the successor... they are still a part of the great company afterwards.
In fact... basically everything you have said here is wrong...

Bran Dawri wrote:

Phydox wrote:
Space Wolf Scouts used to be the final stage of a Tactical squad. The back ground used to say that SW Tactical Squads became Long Fangs as their squad dwindled. The reason they could shoot 2 different targets was experience and working together so long as a unit. The name Long Fang originally came from the genetic flaw that SW teeth kept growing. So the older guys have longer teeth.

Thats why Young Bloods had bigger units then tactical units. They were the start of the whole process.

A SW scout was a loner because he was what came after the Long Fang unit dwindled to one guy. So he was actually the most experienced marine from a tactical squad formed a long long time ago. They actually started getting feral (reason for antisocial behavior), but were capable of amazing solo scouting expeditions, going for long periods in enemy territories scouting alone.

Wrong. Although the dwindling squads part and the reason for Long Fang names is true, Wolf Scouts are not older even than Long Fangs. Long Fangs who survive as the only living member of their squad will be inducted either to the Wolf Guard or have lived so long and acquired so much experience that they're all set to become Wolf Priests and train the next generation of Blood Claws.
SW scouts have, ever since 3rd edition always been loners by temperament, not by age. They're usually identified while still Blood Claws, and rather than promoted to Grey Hunter when the rest of the pack is, are inducted into the scouts.

The problem with these 40k background questions is that GW isn't consistent with its background stuff between codices. They seem to think that people don't wanna hear the same thing again so they change it. The problem is instead of expanding on something good, a lot of times they change good stuff for garbage.

Anyway, everything I mentioned was from a codex about 2 back. The one with a space wolf on the cover with red hair shooting an orc in the snow. I don't play SW, so I never bothered to own that codex. Everything i sited was from memory. It was also in a White Dwarf that came out around the same time as the codex.

I did say what I was quoting was old material, when I made my post. The fact that what I quoted was from something I read about 10+ years ago is pretty good though.

 purplefood wrote:
ls 3e might be a thing.
Wolf scouts do come in regular packs...
It's like a normal pack except it consists of wolf scouts...
The marines in a fallen wolf lord's great company vote on the successor... they are still a part of the great company afterwards.
In fact... basically everything you have said here is wrong...

Wof Scouts do not come in packs. If they did, they would be reconnaissance Grey Hunters in funny armor.

Great Companies probably do not vote by secret ballot. They vote by acclamation, and since they are the units of everything else, the packs probably hold franchise, not individuals. They are inferences, but I am a smart guy.

pelicaniforce wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
ls 3e might be a thing.
Wolf scouts do come in regular packs...
It's like a normal pack except it consists of wolf scouts...
The marines in a fallen wolf lord's great company vote on the successor... they are still a part of the great company afterwards.
In fact... basically everything you have said here is wrong...

Wof Scouts do not come in packs. If they did, they would be reconnaissance Grey Hunters in funny armor.

Great Companies probably do not vote by secret ballot. They vote by acclamation, and since they are the units of everything else, the packs probably hold franchise, not individuals. They are inferences, but I am a smart guy.

They come in packs...
A group of Wolf Scouts is referred to as a pack of Wolf Scouts...
I'm not saying they vote by a secret ballot. I'm saying the Wolf Lord gets into power through popular accord. This is usually because he's the best leader and fighter...
I'd say the individuals hold the power since the Space Wolves place such importance on individualism...
After all even a pack of Long Fangs may disagree on who should lead the Great Company next.