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So some background, I've played Orks from Rogue Trader to early 4th edition when my gaming buddies kind of dispersed. For years, my orks sat unused, and a buddy offered to buy them so he could break them up and sell the units on ebay in his store. Since I thought my 40K days were behind me, I sold them, but I had kept my random space marines that I had amassed over the years from various box sets.

Fast forward a number of years, and I've been dragged back into 40K (as have many of my old gaming group). So instead of buying a new army, I pulled out all my old marines and stripped the few that were painted, and began painting them up as Crimson Fists. I've always liked the simple CF paint scheme, their background fluff was different enough from most codex SM chapters (the whole rebuilding from near annihilation deal), and being the original Space Marines from the cover of Rogue Trader just made the decision a bit easier. Heck, my first Ork boxed set was Thrugg Bullneck's Ork Raiders and the box fluff even referenced the Ork invasion of Rynn's World, so call it coming full circle if you will.

So I purchased a few extra units to round out the army, some rhinos, sternguard, and scouts, and I've played a few games with them using 6th edition rules. But so far, I'm having a hard time adjusting to the all-around elite flexibility of the army. It sounds crazy, I know, but when you play an army like Orks for so many years, you get used to having lots of expendable troops that are generally only good at one thing, and marines require a completely different mindset. I've caught myself advancing a little too recklessly, throwing pricey units in the thick of things without really considering the consequences, and taking assaults that I have no business getting into (when it would have been better to just stand back and shoot some more).

In a sense, I need to de-orkify my sense of 40K tactics. So far, my one idea is to avoid Space Marine assault units all together until I get a better handle on the way marines play. I've been mainly building my armies around tactical marines, and taking units to try and support them in their advance, but I still find myself overextending my forces as I try to get in closer to my opponent's battle line. I understand there are easier ways to win games with C:SM, like load up on TH/SS termies and Special Characters, but I like to build "fluffy" armies and tend to avoid special characters in general. My current army is based on the 2nd company of the Crimson Fists, with lots of scouts and sternguard thrown in to match the general "chapter in rebuilding mode" backstory of the Crimson Fists (which generally consists of lots of veterans and recruits). Since tactical marines are the most veteran of the 4 basic types of marines (Scouts, Devestators, Assault, Tactical), my army list always starts off with at least one full tactical squad.

So has anybody else had a hard time switching armies like this? What helped you adjust?

What helped me adjust was watching how others who played the same army as I did play.

 Myrthan wrote:
What helped me adjust was watching how others who played the same army as I did play.

This completely. I went from GK in TDA to IG that got chewed up so fast. I never understood how hard it is to play without Power armor until then

I own two space marine armies my main force being DA and the second being grey knights. Most of my group have multiple armies and I enjoy playing with the necrons, tau, and sometimes the nids. It takes me awhile to figure out how to run those armies effectively, but after looking at battle reports of games with those armies I can see what units are more useful and I play around with units that don't even see normal play. I'd say just look at some of the more shooty army lists and throw in some close combat units to experiment with.

Read tactics and, well simply, bang your head against the wall for a bit.

I started the hobby with Space Wolves in 5E and it was a pretty smooth ride into the game, but my second army in 5E was Chaos Daemons.

Talk about night and day.

Watch others play, read about the units and determine a play style you might like.

Probably the biggest change you're facing is getting used to a "force concentration" army.

With orks, their numbers are so big that few of the units really support each other. Mobz on one side of the board are just too far away, and with bad fire lanes, etc. to make it all work out. The only way that you could win, therefore, was to have several copies of a specialized unit. Because they were specialized, they were able to have local superiority while being able to get around the problem that the army is so spread out.

But now you're playing the opposite. Rather than having a bunch of units that do one thing well (they have to, because there will be no one to bail them out if they fail), you have units that can't do anything well, but can actually support each other. It's not terribly difficult to get any unit in a power armor army to be able to attack the same enemy unit as every other unit. You have to think of it less along the lines of which unit attacks which unit, and more along the lines of your entire army attacking one or two units at a time. They are able to do this and, because they're not specialized, they are required to do this.

As such, think of your army more as a single large unit, or perhaps two large units. Don't think of them as 3 10-man tac squads, think of it as a single 30-man tac squad mob. The different units are not technically required to behave the same, but strategically, you should get into the mindset that they are.

For me, the fastest way to learn how to play a new army is to play with a good friend. After deployment, roll 1d6, on a 4+ you play his army and he plays yours. Debrief each other afterwards on what each of you did well and what did not work out.

 Ailaros wrote:
Probably the biggest change you're facing is getting used to a "force concentration" army.

With orks, their numbers are so big that few of the units really support each other. Mobz on one side of the board are just too far away, and with bad fire lanes, etc. to make it all work out. The only way that you could win, therefore, was to have several copies of a specialized unit. Because they were specialized, they were able to have local superiority while being able to get around the problem that the army is so spread out.

But now you're playing the opposite. Rather than having a bunch of units that do one thing well (they have to, because there will be no one to bail them out if they fail), you have units that can't do anything well, but can actually support each other. It's not terribly difficult to get any unit in a power armor army to be able to attack the same enemy unit as every other unit. You have to think of it less along the lines of which unit attacks which unit, and more along the lines of your entire army attacking one or two units at a time. They are able to do this and, because they're not specialized, they are required to do this.

As such, think of your army more as a single large unit, or perhaps two large units. Don't think of them as 3 10-man tac squads, think of it as a single 30-man tac squad mob. The different units are not technically required to behave the same, but strategically, you should get into the mindset that they are.

Interesting concept. I will have to take that in consideration when planning my army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Myrthan wrote:
What helped me adjust was watching how others who played the same army as I did play.

Unfortunately, no one in my current gaming group plays Space Marines. I guess I will have to head down to my FLGS and take a look. While its been several years since I've watched any of the local games, alot of those players were WAAC players back then, which is what I'm trying to avoid. But still, it might be useful just to get a better idea of unit capabilities. Several of us are relearning the game, and one is a complete newby to the game, so it might be useful for all of us.

One question I have about Marines is regarding Combat Squads... I'm not really seeing a huge advantage to it for non-terminator squads. Five marines just aren't that survivable and generally can't hold an objectve for very long.

Combat squads can split their fire and shoot at 2 targets, while a full squad of say, 10 can only shoot at 1.

Weirdly enough what me and one of my friends used to do to get to grips with new armies was this.

Play roughly 3-6 games, aim for 6 if you can and do the following:

Using your own army/list

Play a 1000pts game
Play a 1500pts game
Play a 2000pts game

Swap armies/lists and again:

Play a 1000pts game
Play a 1500pts game
Play a 2000pts game

Do a mixture of missions but try and keep the games similar when you swap, this way you can see how different people would use your army, what they've learned from having just played against it and it gives you valuable insight into your enemy both in terms of their capability and strengths/weaknesses as you use them.

Obviously if you have more friends up for this kind of thing you can arrange a massive swapping tournament or round robin.

Sounds crazy but trust me you'll learn a lot in a very short space of time.