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I want to design an 1850 tournament list around a Lysander/Hammernator/Raider deathstar. I'm talking the most unfriendly powergaming spam list you can come up with. I'd like it to be an all comers list, but will be using it to pummel my brother's hated Tau. The above units are mandatory; the rest is open. I would love if you'd post your 1850 best build idea for me. Thanks. PS marines only no allies.

Hmm, I dunno..

Lysander
10 TH/SS Assault Terminators
7 TH/SS Assault Terminators
7 TH/SS Assault Terminators
5 Scouts w/ Sniper Rifles
5 Scouts w/ Sniper Rifles
LRC
LRC w/ Multi Melta

So up to 4 Terminator units. Honestly? I'd consider deploying everything.

One of my very good buddies uses Lysander every game, just like I use Ahriman. He does quite well without any vehicles whatsoever in his lists, and has lots of Termies. Food for thought?

What is your brother running for a list at any rate? Since you need that much fire power?

He runs 4 full fire warrior teams, stealthsuits, 2 crisis teams, 3 kitted out broadsides, a big kroot tarpit and an ethereal. No vehicles, one million shots. I want a hard list that can play anyone, but especially him, as we both try for an all comers list.

If you are just totally committed to the land raiders that's one thing, but have you considered plasma cannons? With that many bodies on the field they generally will start out clumped together. Three devastator squads packed to the gills with plasma cannons could make a nice splattery mess of things. You know what here's a list anyway, look it over.

HQ
Lysander

ELITES
5x TH/SS termies
2x TLC termies
1x TLC sarge

5x TH/SS termies
2x TLC termies
1x TLC sarge

5x TH/SS termies
2x TLC termies
1x TLC sarge

TROOPS
3x 5man scout squads sniper rifles/cloaks all around, two of them have teleport homers

HEAVY
2x Devastator squads with 4x plasma cannons

So I know it's not as ordered. But dig this for a second. First off you run the termie units as a shield wall with the TLCs in the center. shooting comes from the front, so let the storm shields soak up the nastiness. These duders can deep strike in via one of two carefully placed teleport homer teams.
Why three sniper squads? Because the sergeants can attempt to precise shot the Ethereal. Boom-headshot. Slay the warlord is in the bag.
And the devastator squads foom foom foom foom splat splat splat splat. There will be bits of kroot hound and greater good all over the place.
I play Chaos. Iffy lists come natural to me.

Thanks for the responses. The above lists are definitely scary and with good ideas in them. But I was thinking of running a single Lysander/Hammernator unit (possibly adding a chappy or libby also) in a Raider. I need ideas for everything else to fill out the list though. Thanks again.

Lysander
Sniper Scouts (10 with missile and cloaks)
Sniper Scouts (10 with missile and cloaks)
Sternguard (10 with 3 combimeltas and a heavy flamer in drop pod) There AMAZING with lysander...
vindicator
vindicator
vindicator
Allied DA
Belial
5 Deathwing term with TH/SS and a Cyclone
5 Deathwing term with TH/SS and a Heavy Flamer

1850 or so

4 scoring units and tons TONS of ways to kill massed infantry, 2 flamers 2 blast missles a cyclone (so more missiles) and 3 vindicators

Plus lysanders rerolls on the stern. Re rolls to hit on 3's and 2+ to wound is pretty good.

Thanks for the response. It looks like a strong list, but as above,I don't use allies, just pure space marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's one example I'm contemplating; not sure if it's strong or not. Looking for other power builds that do work, as I'm sure many play more than I get to.

Lysander 200
5 Hammernators in a Land Raider 450
3 Tactical Squads w/ Flamer/ML in Rhinos 615
3 Tornados w/ dual Multi Meltas 240
3 Vindicators 345

1850 points

I know but allies is what allows you to capitalize. You wanted a strong all comers list so thats what I went for. If you want a real list not just to kill you buddy then you need more scoring units. You could put in pedro cantor so you sternguard are scoring.

Lysander
Pedro
10 Sniper Scouts with Missile and cloaks
10 Sniper Scouts with Missile and cloaks
vindicator
vindicator
vindicator
10 sternguard, drop pod, 3 combimeltas, Heavy flamer
5 thunder hammer terminators
5 thunder hammer termintators

You lose a scoring unit but can combat squad after the stern land to allow a heavy flamer on one infantry unit and meltas on a tank!

then you have 4 scoring again.

Seems solid.

I appreciate your suggestion, but isn't that the same number of scoring units as mine- up to 6 with combat squadding?

Anyway, I think I'm getting closer to hammering out the list. I've made a few changes- hopefully this list is tough and tournament ready while maintaining the fluff/flavor of the Fists and their love of siege warfare.

Lysander 200
1x5 Assault Terminators in a Land Raider 450
3x10 Tacticals w/ Plasmagun/Plasma Cannon in Rhinos 660
2x2 Attack Bikes w/ Multi-Meltas 200
2x Vindicators w/ Dozer Blades 240
1x Thunderfire Cannon 100

1850 points

I've said it before, I'll say it again - I feel Lysander is better at home with Stormbolter/Powerfist Terminators, with cyclone missile launchers. Especially against Tau, you don't need the extra die-hard combat proficiency of assault terminators; some shooting to tear apart his units from farther away helps, too.

I played a tau gunline with an imperial fists army (similar situation), and just marched armor 12/13/14 up front. With some bad shooting from him (he had 2 Hammerheads, 2 Broadsides), he couldn't stop my advance before I plowed into his gunline and tank-shocked his commander and 2 other units off the board with my land raider (FTW!!!).

But seriously, with 3 Squads of Broadsides, I'd think almost deepstriking Vanguard Veterans to tie them up (give them all power axes, Thunder Hammers or Powerfists) would be a most effective way to stop those annoying s10 ap1 railguns. Along with some drop-podding Sternguard with heavy flamer as mentioned before, you might have yourself a winner!

Also, Pro Tip: Some may laugh but the lowly Whirlwind is an amazing underdog against Tau. s5 ap4 (indirect fire) and s4 ap5 direct fire (ignores cover) are both godsends for taking out Tau gunlines behind aegis defence lines. Gone to ground for 2+ cover? S5 ap4 indirect fire. Hiding in a ruin/area terrain? S4 ap5, or whichever gives you the best chances. Seriously, kill an average of 5-7 tau bodies a turn with an 85 pt support tank they can't see because it's hiding behind some terrain (or bigger tanks, see Land Raiders as dedicated transports).

One was good, 2 might be better. Might, although I'd never take more than 1 in a list personally.

If you want Lysander and Terminators I would go with:

Lysander
Libby in TDA with GoI and NZ

2x 10 TH/SS Termies
10 Terminators with either 2xAC or 2xCML (Put Lysander here for the rerolls)

10 Scouts Sniper Rifles and Telion
5 Scouts

30 Terminators is just ridiculous and Lysander giving them the reroll and providing a sink for wounds is nice too. Libby can Gate one TH/SS squad up fast. I would honestly run this list with out Lysander, add another GoI Libby and add an ADL.

take space wolves

1850 i can see like 30-35 terms?

 evildrspock wrote:
I've said it before, I'll say it again - I feel Lysander is better at home with Stormbolter/Powerfist Terminators, with cyclone missile launchers. Especially against Tau, you don't need the extra die-hard combat proficiency of assault terminators; some shooting to tear apart his units from farther away helps, too.

I played a tau gunline with an imperial fists army (similar situation), and just marched armor 12/13/14 up front. With some bad shooting from him (he had 2 Hammerheads, 2 Broadsides), he couldn't stop my advance before I plowed into his gunline and tank-shocked his commander and 2 other units off the board with my land raider (FTW!!!).

But seriously, with 3 Squads of Broadsides, I'd think almost deepstriking Vanguard Veterans to tie them up (give them all power axes, Thunder Hammers or Powerfists) would be a most effective way to stop those annoying s10 ap1 railguns. Along with some drop-podding Sternguard with heavy flamer as mentioned before, you might have yourself a winner!

Also, Pro Tip: Some may laugh but the lowly Whirlwind is an amazing underdog against Tau. s5 ap4 (indirect fire) and s4 ap5 direct fire (ignores cover) are both godsends for taking out Tau gunlines behind aegis defence lines. Gone to ground for 2+ cover? S5 ap4 indirect fire. Hiding in a ruin/area terrain? S4 ap5, or whichever gives you the best chances. Seriously, kill an average of 5-7 tau bodies a turn with an 85 pt support tank they can't see because it's hiding behind some terrain (or bigger tanks, see Land Raiders as dedicated transports).

One was good, 2 might be better. Might, although I'd never take more than 1 in a list personally.

;
I like the Whirlwind idea. No one likes it, but it's cheap and fires indirect. I have them too. Who would you put in the LR in place of Lyander

I am a fan of the lists people are providing that do not use land raiders. They will be pummeled in such low quantities by rail guns so why bother? That is 500 points saved for more terminators or other goodies.

 Deuce11 wrote:
I am a fan of the lists people are providing that do not use land raiders. They will be pummeled in such low quantities by rail guns so why bother? That is 500 points saved for more terminators or other goodies.

That being the point I made earlier! I agree with this guy!

You could use Sternguard in the Land Raider, although a simple squad of 10 Tactical Marines makes the Land Raider an excellent transport for a scoring unit into very hostile territory. Heck, Even Lysander with 10 Marines is pretty good as there's room inside. If you wanna bring 2 HQ's I might put a regular Chaplain in with the 10 Marines to make them hit a little harder. Seriously the best parts of a Land Raider are 1) It is hard to kill (even railguns have a 50/50 chance of damage result), 2) Excellent transport capabilities. Scouts are OK if you're min/maxing, but really don't have the damage output of a Tactical Squad.

I do like the idea of 30 Terminators, though seriously that's 1400 pts minimum with Lysander. (Not counting upgrades or required troop choices). But for 30 Hard as nails bodies, might work. Keep in mind all of the ap2 people love out there, seems TH/SS will be your friend.

HQ Lysander 200

Elite: 6 TH/SS Termies 2x LC Terminator 320
LRC 260
Elite: 7 Terminators 2x Chainfist, 1 AssCan 320
LRC w MM 260
1340
5 Scouts Sgt w Combi-Melta and MB 90
5 Scouts Sgt w Combi-Melta and MB 90
5 Scouts Sgt w Cloaks Snoper and ML 100
5 Scouts Camo Cloaks Sniper and ML 100
Landspeeder Storm w MM 60
Landspeeder Storm w MM 60


1840. I

2 x LRC with 8 termies each. I wanted two LC termies so the entire unit does not go at I1. Lysander went with the regular termies so he can make use of bolter driill. 2 Scouts to sit back on objectives and 2 alpha strike landspeeder storms to put a wrench in the enemy's plans.