Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok, I have a question regarding how others view the elite slots for the 'Nids. Since 6th dropped, I have been using 3 Hive Guard, 3 Zo's and between 7 and 10 Ymgarl. I have had an increasing number of people ask about the Doom Of Malan'tai and why I don't use him. Am I missing something? Doom in a spore is 180 points; spore hits the ground, Doom falls out, his power goes off and he gains maybe 2 or 3 wounds, opponent shoots doom with S8 weapons until you fail a save and you remove your awesome 8 wound model from the board. Is there some secret tactica I am missing for it? Any input will be invaluable.....

You can try your luck at switching out the Doom's ability for Biomancy. If you get Iron Arm, he ain't dying. But you know, one in six to get that

Against Orks, the Doom is actually really good - though keep in mind their Mob Rule. They need Rokkits, or a lot of transports to hide away - or else he's just going to be a massive distraction. Since the Doom can challenge, assaulting him is an even bleaker prospect. In general, Orks have very few ways of dealing with him.

The tyranid elite slott is a hot potato. There are no good awsers, only good options. Lictors and pyrovores exluded.

 Battlesong wrote:
Doom in a spore is 180 points

DoOM in a pod is 140pts, or 145 w/barbed strangler, or 150 w/venom cannon. I'm trying him out in my next list, but dropping him and a pod in your opponents face forces him to respond, taking pressure off the rest of your MC's/troops. If he has to focus his str8 shots on DoOM ...

I'm running a bunch of gants and tervigons, so any pressure taken off them and focused on DoOM saves me a turn or two to get across the board ... also, my zoe's never seemed to earn their points back ...

Doom in a pod is only 130 and against a foot list can be fantastic.

Hive guard are always reliable and the ability to swap or not on zoanthropes makes them a good choice.

Ymgarl I find the more situational of the best choices.

Of the others, venomthropes are not bad - just in a slot with too many other choices. Lictors/deathleapers are so-so and pyrovore the only bad choice.

Not sure where you are getting 180pts for Doom in a pod. Depending on what you give the pod he his closer to 130pts.

As for the Doom, he is what is reffered to as a Disruption unit. It casues your opponet to deal with it as fast as possible becasue they can't have the Doom sitting in thier depolyment zone. You can also use the pod to disrupt LOS or block vehicles.

So yes, he drops, he sucks some brains and then he dies. So the question is is it worth the points and the elite slot to disrupt your opponents battle plan and to be able to advance your army up the board unmolested for 1 or 2 turns.

He is favored by gamblers though. On the days he get lucky he can rip up huge chunks of an opponents army. I personally don't use him that much becasue I use Deathleaper as one of my disruption units.

Regarding the points, working off memory as I didn't have the 'dex readily available and, apparently, the friday bug has got me; sorry about that little mistake


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gloomfang wrote:
Not sure where you are getting 180pts for Doom in a pod. Depending on what you give the pod he his closer to 130pts.

As for the Doom, he is what is reffered to as a Disruption unit. It casues your opponet to deal with it as fast as possible becasue they can't have the Doom sitting in thier depolyment zone. You can also use the pod to disrupt LOS or block vehicles.

So yes, he drops, he sucks some brains and then he dies. So the question is is it worth the points and the elite slot to disrupt your opponents battle plan and to be able to advance your army up the board unmolested for 1 or 2 turns.

He is favored by gamblers though. On the days he get lucky he can rip up huge chunks of an opponents army. I personally don't use him that much becasue I use Deathleaper as one of my disruption units.

Really, I haven't tried Deathleaper in a while, how does he work for you? And more to the point, what is the best way to use him? I tried him when I first started playing, but couldn't figure out how to use him effectively and filled out my elite slots elsewhere.

 Gloomfang wrote:
He is favored by gamblers though. On the days he get lucky he can rip up huge chunks of an opponents army. I personally don't use him that much becasue I use Deathleaper as one of my disruption units.

Basically this. I've seen him basically solo a 1500 point army, and I've seen him kill nothing and fail his first save and get instant death'ed.

If you want to gamble, give him a go, but if you want something more consistent then stick to ymgarls and hive guard.

 Battlesong wrote:

Really, I haven't tried Deathleaper in a while, how does he work for you? And more to the point, what is the best way to use him? I tried him when I first started playing, but couldn't figure out how to use him effectively and filled out my elite slots elsewhere.

Think of Deathleaper as a scalpel. He is really good at removing a few key models or making them less effective.

A few things on using him:

1) You hit the closest target in shooting now. If you pop him up so that he is closest to the model you want to remove then they take the hits.

2) He is a character. That means he can issue challenges and direct hits on a 6. Makes him more survivable against powerfists that would have ID'ed him in 5th.

3) He has the equivalent of assault grenades making him great at charging units in cover to tie them up in CC so other units can charge in without penalty.

4) he can reduce leadership. That is great for psykers or models that others use their leadership (Lord Commisars HATE the Deathleaper).

5) Still great at contesting objectives late in the game.

6) He is really good against mech now. Rending on a 5 or 6 and hitting easier means that back field artillery is generally an easy kill.

So he works really well in my list as there are a few models (Farseers and Rune Priests) that can nerf my psykers. Also taking out Vindicators and thunderfire cannons. He is expensive, but he is a powerhouse in 6th.

 Gloomfang wrote:

 Battlesong wrote:



6) He is really good against mech now. Rending on a 5 or 6 and hitting easier means that back field artillery is generally an easy kill.

I thought rending was just on a 6? Has this been changed?

 Gloomfang wrote:

 Battlesong wrote:



6) He is really good against mech now. Rending on a 5 or 6 and hitting easier means that back field artillery is generally an easy kill.

I thought rending was just on a 6? Has this been changed?

Deathleaper has a special ability that lets him rend on a 5 or 6. This also includes his 1 shooting attack since they are rending attacks too.
Also, always try to deploy him in cover if you can. He has Shroud and Stealth so in cover he is almost always going to have a 2+ cover save. But he is only T4 so he can ID quickly as I discovered after dropping him into cover to kill some Long Fangs, and with the first krak missle shot at him, I rolled a 1 for cover save.

The Doom is ridiculous against low save armies, like Eldar and Dark Eldar. The key is to get your opponent's units bunched up. I drained 15 wounds from three squads of warriors and annihilated a Raider with Lilith next to it.

Adding twin-linked deathspitters to the pod is also a nasty turret to drop in your opponent's back 12.

And remember that those S8 hits can be saved at 3++.

Little bugger. All these games I've been playing him rending on a 6..........

I have to agree with all the above comments though. I've had experience with the Deathleaper and while many people seem to think he's a waste of points, I've had nothing but positive experiences.

I like to use 2 units of hive guard and then I alternate between the Doom and Deathleaper for games.

IMO Hive guard are much better then Zoans. You don't need LOS, their guns are str 8 with 2 shots and the new FAQ cleared up some grey areas on saves which makes them better. For zoans you only get the one shot and there is more opportunity for it to fail (psychic test, deny the witch). If there is a farseer on the board then you basically lose your zoans ability to shoot effectively. Hive guard dont have these drawbacks.

The doom and deathleaper have already been discussed for their uses I would only add that for the doom drop his psychic power for pychic shriek againt foot armies so your not losing wounds every time you shoot.

 Gloomfang wrote:

6) He is really good against mech now. Rending on a 5 or 6 and hitting easier means that back field artillery is generally an easy kill.

I am afraid this special ability is only for "to Wound" rolls. Therefore he is not rending on 5 against mech.
But being S6, hitting on 3+ (reroll "1") on rear armor means he is still very good Vs mech, but just not that good.

XC18 wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:

6) He is really good against mech now. Rending on a 5 or 6 and hitting easier means that back field artillery is generally an easy kill.

I am afraid this special ability is only for "to Wound" rolls. Therefore he is not rending on 5 against mech.
But being S6, hitting on 3+ (reroll "1") on rear armor means he is still very good Vs mech, but just not that good.

I wasn't clear in my thoughts. Yes it is only on a 6 vs. Mech. But now artillary is S7 and not AV whatever, so they can now get rended on a 5 or 6.

I've been dropping my Hive Guard from my lists as of late. Not that they aren't good units. They are. I've just been wanting to try out different elites and such for a while. Doom, Deathleaper, and Venomthropes to be specific. So far I haven't been missing the Hive Guard.

I guess I just find that I don't enjoy the Hive Guard too much. Sure, they're great support units, and very reliable. But most if not all my lists are a swarm focus, and the Hive Guard don't seem to fit in with those lists too well. Both fluff and tactics wise.

I used a 120 Hormagaunts and 40 Genestealers list the other day just for fun. I know Genestealers aren't all that great. But man, I had more fun with that list than any competitive list I've used in a long time.

 HiveFleetCollossus wrote:
Little bugger. All these games I've been playing him rending on a 6..........

I have to agree with all the above comments though. I've had experience with the Deathleaper and while many people seem to think he's a waste of points, I've had nothing but positive experiences.

Deathleaper and the Doom are both pretty hit-or-miss, although the Doom's the less-subtle about it. Against a de-meched list, the Doom is a killer, he's total cheese. Even if he gets ID'd by a missile, there's a good chance he has already caused a ton of damage. The Deathleaper is good in the games I've used him, but he's very fragile and vulnerable when he arrives on the board. He's definitely less cheesy and more fun though.

Slagmar wrote:
I like to use 2 units of hive guard and then I alternate between the Doom and Deathleaper for games.

IMO Hive guard are much better then Zoans. You don't need LOS, their guns are str 8 with 2 shots and the new FAQ cleared up some grey areas on saves which makes them better. For zoans you only get the one shot and there is more opportunity for it to fail (psychic test, deny the witch). If there is a farseer on the board then you basically lose your zoans ability to shoot effectively. Hive guard dont have these drawbacks.

The doom and deathleaper have already been discussed for their uses I would only add that for the doom drop his psychic power for pychic shriek againt foot armies so your not losing wounds every time you shoot.

While I do not disagree with you I should note that Guards and Zoans have different functions. Zoans are meant to put holes in land raiders and monoliths and other ultra high av vehicles, hive guards are light vehicle killers and medium vehicle harassers.

What does the doom do against vehicles? I think I missed something...

Drager wrote:
What does the doom do against vehicles? I think I missed something...

Doom needs to get some kills first with his spirit leach on dropping in. If you can get him up to say S8-10 then he can cast cataclsym S8-10, Ap1 and if the vehicle is close enough can always charge it as his S will still be high enough to get through rear armour.

He needs to get those initial kills though.