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7 basic marines with bolters, 1 with rocket launcher, 1 with melta and a sergeant with bolter and power fist. I am going for pure generic, semi-competitive build not super optimized. They also have a rhino with each. Am I missing anything?

-CP

well I always thought that now with challenges dropping the fist for power sword and meltabombs is better

I wouldn't use the power fist to be honest. At 25 pts and the chances of actually using it are weak. If you fear MC or dreads try meltbombs and give your Srgt a combi weapon to match your special weapon. If anything try the power weapon so you at least strike at your Initiative

I agree. For a generalist tactical squad, a sword is better then a fist. If you really want the fist, also take a combi-weapon, as you are not getting the extra attack from the pistol anyway.

I also think the plasmagun is worth considering over the meltagun if you were using a squad on foot. The additional range is big for a squad that's walking. If podding them or giving them a Rhino, the melta's solid too.

The other consideration with the sgt's armament is which codex you're using. If you're Blood Angels, yeah, I'd say power sword or power maul + melta bombs. If you're playing regular Codex: SM, it's worth considering saving the points and not bothering with a PW. Because you've got Combat Tactics, they can just attempt flee from a combat and go do something else. Dreads and many MCs aren't nearly as scary to C:SM tacticals as they used to be, between your krak grenades now having much better odds to do something than they used to, and Combat Tactics.

 Mannahnin wrote:
I also think the plasmagun is worth considering over the meltagun if you were using a squad on foot. The additional range is big for a squad that's walking. If podding them or giving them a Rhino, the melta's solid too.

The other consideration with the sgt's armament is which codex you're using. If you're Blood Angels, yeah, I'd say power sword or power maul + melta bombs. If you're playing regular Codex: SM, it's worth considering saving the points and not bothering with a PW. Because you've got Combat Tactics, they can just attempt flee from a combat and go do something else. Dreads and many MCs aren't nearly as scary to C:SM tacticals as they used to be, between your krak grenades now having much better odds to do something than they used to, and Combat Tactics.

So, if I'm bringing Lysander and I give up Combat Tactics, what's a good loadout then?

 NickTheButcher wrote:

So, if I'm bringing Lysander and I give up Combat Tactics, what's a good loadout then?

Missile Launcher/Plasma Gun. If you're really worried about it, a Melta Bomb. The only real use of the Power Fist used to be for fighting things you couldn't hurt or vehicles. Now, you can whip grenades at nearly anything you couldn't hurt, and make a mockery of vehicles with them.

I always run the following builds:

7 Bolter Marines, 1 Melta, 1 Missile Launcher, Combi-Melta + Powerfist. (I use these as tank hunters primarily.)

7 Bolter Marines, 1 Plasma, 1 Missile Launcher, 1 Power Sword (Ocassionally attach Meltabomb or Combi weapon if I feel the need or have the points)

7 Bolter Marines, 1 Flamer, 1 Missile Launcher, 1 Power Sword (Don't use this one much but have done in the past)

Powersword over Powerfist. You're already packing some heat with the Missile Launcher, and a Melta gun or Plasma gun. I would prefer Plasma over Melta for a basic squad, because a plasma gun is better against infanty. Take Melta Bombs if you feel like them

With combat tactics I would go pistol+bolter or pistol+combimelta.
You shouldn't plan to stay in cc. You use the challenge to raise or lower the wounds taken and given out, so you lose by precisely one wound and so can escape.

Caveat is that tactical squads can be quite effective against the right opponent, but in general these do not need a power weapon.

Maybe take meltabombs. They are cheap and deadly.

So long as you can screen your troops with elites and so mostly your taking on roughly comparable units where your SGT has a reasonable chance to survive to I1 then axe and fist are still where its at for tipping the balance in your favour.

In that sense 5th and 6th are broadly similar, tacticals have never bought serious combat power although they could always be counted on to contribute.

I maintain there is still a role PFs in some tac squads.

Now with the challenges in 6th edition, I'd personally take the power sword for the initiative. I wouldn't want to accept a challenge then get smashed without swinging. Though that is just my opinion.

If you're using a combi-weapon then a Lightning Claw would be superior to a Power Weapon.

The LC's not an option for Tac Squad sgts, though. At least not for Codex: SM; it might be for BA, but my BA codex is out in the car, it's raining out and I'm cozy inside right now.

 Mannahnin wrote:
The LC's not an option for Tac Squad sgts, though. At least not for Codex: SM; it might be for BA, but my BA codex is out in the car, it's raining out and I'm cozy inside right now.

LC are not an option for BA sgts either.

I personally field a 10 man tac sqd 1MG, 1CM, 1 PP or PW depending on the rest of my list. Throw them in a rhino and just flat out to them. They do pretty well.

So you have a pf, mg, ML squad in rhino

You need more squads, mixing that up is the next step

That first squad wants to move forward to the mid field and contribute with the melta and help clean up (the right opponent) with the fist

I would suggest an objective camping squad too, ie pg and lascannon. Beauty of this squad is you could combat squad it and keep the SGT with the heavy weapon for LD and retain 3 bodies for ablative wounds while pushing the weak other half forward.