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So after picking up a pair of DV sets (really just for the chaos models), as well as a few other goodies, I thought I'd try to make a DA strikeforce. I know their codex is out of date, so if the normal SM codex is more appropriate let me know. Any comments are appreciated.

HQ: 205
Sammel (205): Land Speeder

ELITES: 500
Terminators (250): Chainfist, Assault Cannon
Terminators (250): Chainfist, Assault Cannon

TROOPS: 785
Tactical Squad (260): Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon
Sergeant, Plasma Pistol
Drop Pod
Tactical Squad (260): Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon
Sergeant, Plasma Pistol
Drop Pod
6 Bikers (265): 2 Plasma Guns, Apothecary

Total: 1490

I don't see their codex as being too out-dated compared to the C:SM codex with the new FAQs, but the thing I did notice is that they don't have Combat Tactics (choosing to fail leadership checks). That, and scouts are not troops :(

SPend those extra 10 points, probably simply by putting meltabombs on a couple people.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
I don't see their codex as being too out-dated compared to the C:SM codex with the new FAQs, but the thing I did notice is that they don't have Combat Tactics (choosing to fail leadership checks). That, and scouts are not troops :(

You must not have the DA and SM codexes. If you do, check the differences in points cost for nearly every unit in them.

The scouts not being troops is because DA scouts are actually marines, not beefy guardsmen. BS and WS 4 is nice, especially if you give them sniper rifles. The extra 17% chance to hit on single-shot models is (to me) worth the extra points cost.

 nolzur wrote:
SPend those extra 10 points, probably simply by putting meltabombs on a couple people.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
I don't see their codex as being too out-dated compared to the C:SM codex with the new FAQs, but the thing I did notice is that they don't have Combat Tactics (choosing to fail leadership checks). That, and scouts are not troops :(

You must not have the DA and SM codexes. If you do, check the differences in points cost for nearly every unit in them.

The scouts not being troops is because DA scouts are actually marines, not beefy guardsmen. BS and WS 4 is nice, especially if you give them sniper rifles. The extra 17% chance to hit on single-shot models is (to me) worth the extra points cost.

Although you were a bit condescending, I do see your point. However, when I am using sniper rifles I am usually hoping for 6's for precision shots in the new rules, so the difference in BS isn't as important to me. The best thing about C:SM scouts (imo) over DA is the addition of Telion. Using him to snipe enemy characters is worth the 50 points extra he costs.

I don't think the codex is THAT outdated, I just think it isn't as flavorful as it could be. I'd like Interrogator Chaplains to be more interesting. I also feel like the special builds that the DA codex allows (Deathwing and Ravenwing particularly) could have been handled just as easily in the C:SM by adding special characters. I DO feel that it is a more expensive version of C:SM with some flavor bits thrown in.

With the addition of allies rules, I find that I can generally get what I want out of both codexes now, so I don't really mind all that much. Deathwing lists are particularly good (at least in my local meta), so I don't feel like we are that far behind.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:


Although you were a bit condescending, I do see your point. However, when I am using sniper rifles I am usually hoping for 6's for precision shots in the new rules, so the difference in BS isn't as important to me. The best thing about C:SM scouts (imo) over DA is the addition of Telion. Using him to snipe enemy characters is worth the 50 points extra he costs.

I don't think the codex is THAT outdated, I just think it isn't as flavorful as it could be. I'd like Interrogator Chaplains to be more interesting. I also feel like the special builds that the DA codex allows (Deathwing and Ravenwing particularly) could have been handled just as easily in the C:SM by adding special characters. I DO feel that it is a more expensive version of C:SM with some flavor bits thrown in.

With the addition of allies rules, I find that I can generally get what I want out of both codexes now, so I don't really mind all that much. Deathwing lists are particularly good (at least in my local meta), so I don't feel like we are that far behind.

Terminators are generally a solid middle finger to anything, especially when there are forty of them.

Relevant to the thread - Bikes usually aren't used , I'm not sure why. Large squads anyway. Using purely DV material it's hard to find wiggle room, but I'd spring for Rhinos for the Tacticals over pods, because... why would you drop pod a Plasma cannon? I'd also drop chainfists - power fists are more than sufficient. Perhaps if points allow utilize the Librarian with Divination and stick him in with a tac squad.

I would really like a 3rd drop pod but you have an interesting take on a 1500 list using all the elements of DV boxes. If you look at expanding the force to cover 1850, I would look at getting a 3rd tac squad with a drop pod and fill out the bike squad with an attack bike and perhaps a speeder if you can afford it.

I have to say for drop pods with powerarmour dark angels are just too expensive and not flexible enough. They nearly work with DWA and bikers with a homer but they do not quite make it, maybe with drop pods as the allies.

Having scouts with camo cloaks and scoring makes them a useful unit. They are not that amazing otherwise.

I always felt Sammael was too vulnerable in his speeder and now they give him 2 hull points.

You have to assume though your list will be reasonable with the new codex

Why are you running Sammael without running a bunch of bikes? Throw down Belial, less of a target, brings the DW pain as well.

 Sirmauz wrote:
Why are you running Sammael without running a bunch of bikes? Throw down Belial, less of a target, brings the DW pain as well.

I agree. I'd just drop Sammael all together and take a Librarian or Interrogator chaplain if you are really opposed to using Belial (I don't know why). Or even a chaplain or libby on a bike to accompany your RW and make them a little more powerful. But it's up to you. You might also consider giving one of your Deathwing squads a cyclone missile launcher instead? It gives you something stronger than Str 7 and can help glance harder to kill vehicles. In terms of anti-infantry you are pretty much set with all that plasma goodness. Your only anti-tank is your power fists really, which might get shot to death before they arrive.

-VardenV2

@Varden I'd change up much of the wargear and options (like the blatantly superior cyclone missile launcher) but I'm trying to do this with just the Dark Vengeance set pieces.

I can totally drop sammel for belial, I was just trying to give another threat on the field (and give the bikes an apothecary). If I do perhaps I can have the tac squads be allied from the space marine dex since they are pretty inferior in the DA dex. Thoughts?

Well for now running vanilla marines in DPs makes sense but hopefully we are within 2 months of a new codex. Rumors are they will have sternguard, vangard vets and other differences.

I would just paint them up as DAs. They have the built in iconography to be DAs so go with that. Just explain to your opponent that your DA tacs are from holy smurfdom for now.

Sammael on his speeder is an option and frankly you don't have enough points to spare at 1500 to make taking Belial that great of a move. Thd only option I would think of with the current dex is Belial and a landspeeder tornado. But to each his own.


Sammael is in a landraider with autohit assault cannon and heavy bolters. He also gets the jink save. I would say stay with Sammael unless you are going to a higher point total and you can add Belial and another DW squad.

As I tried to do the allied chart for the tac marines it is just way, way cheaper to use the space marine codex for the moment. Still using the DV models here's what I came up with.


HQ: 290
Captain (145): Artificer Armor, Relic Blade
Captain (145): Artificer Armor, Relic Blade

Elites: 470
Terminators (235): Chainfist, Assault Cannon
Terminators (235): Chainfist, Assault Cannon

TROOPS: 540
Tactical Squad (270): Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon
Sergeant, Plasma Pistol & Powerfist
Drop Pod, Locator Beacon
Tactical Squad (270): Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon
Sergeant, Plasma Pistol & Powerfist
Drop Pod, Locator Beacon

FAST ATTACK: 200
6 Bikers (200): 2 Plasma Guns
Sergeant, Meltabombs

Total: 1500

DAaddict wrote:
Sammael on his speeder is an option and frankly you don't have enough points to spare at 1500 to make taking Belial that great of a move. Thd only option I would think of with the current dex is Belial and a landspeeder tornado.
Sammael is in a landraider with autohit assault cannon and heavy bolters. He also gets the jink save. I would say stay with Sammael unless you are going to a higher point total and you can add Belial and another DW squad.

Belial is 130 points, and allows those two terminator squads to be troops. Sammael is over 200 and makes 1 bike squad a troop.

Why would you take a landspeeder tornado when you can get a land speeder typhoon for only 75 points? I am personally not that impressed with assault cannons to pay that many more points, and if you are meaning a heavy flamer, the speeder is a bit too fragile to go charging in with that.

 nolzur wrote:

DAaddict wrote:
Sammael on his speeder is an option and frankly you don't have enough points to spare at 1500 to make taking Belial that great of a move. Thd only option I would think of with the current dex is Belial and a landspeeder tornado.
Sammael is in a landraider with autohit assault cannon and heavy bolters. He also gets the jink save. I would say stay with Sammael unless you are going to a higher point total and you can add Belial and another DW squad.

Belial is 130 points, and allows those two terminator squads to be troops. Sammael is over 200 and makes 1 bike squad a troop.

Why would you take a landspeeder tornado when you can get a land speeder typhoon for only 75 points? I am personally not that impressed with assault cannons to pay that many more points, and if you are meaning a heavy flamer, the speeder is a bit too fragile to go charging in with that.

To quote Roger Clemens, I mis-remembered. I meant typhoon. The math worked out. Belial + Typhoon = 205. My point it that sammiel in his supertornado is not a bad option.

1. 3 S5 shots and 4 S6 rending shots that hit 35/out of 36 times. Couple that with AV14 and jink saves.
2. Having the bikers as a troop choice is nice as you have an ability to steal an objective late in the game. Termies have to go for it a lot earlier.
3. For the cost conscious, Sammiel = 1 modified landspeeder. Or Belial + landspeeder... That means 20 to 50 $ more to get unless you can talk someone out of a single terminator and don't mind if he looks like a standard terminator.

Sammael's land speeder is als AV14 on all sides but the rear (10).

The prob I see is alotta oh gak shots rallied into Sammy, and he aint gonna get cover from an Aurora Chapter tank spam army (IA) or Sons of Medusa chapter rocket spam (IA). Belly can run with a pack to share the pain, and he's gonna force your opponent to really wonder if you are DS him into his rear. The SM codex troops ARE a bit cheaper, but just hold out. The new DA codex is supposed to drop here in a few weeks according to my FLGS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, on the DA scouts side, remember that they come standard with BOTH bolter and shotgun, Bolt pistol, and CCW! They are elites, yeah, but the statlines and equipment for em are amazing compared to regular scouts. WS BS 4, and you can fight 24" or if the enemy closes into your 12" charge threat, shotgun em and charge with BP and CCW!

 Sirmauz wrote:
Also, on the DA scouts side, remember that they come standard with BOTH bolter and shotgun, Bolt pistol, and CCW! They are elites, yeah, but the statlines and equipment for em are amazing compared to regular scouts. WS BS 4, and you can fight 24" or if the enemy closes into your 12" charge threat, shotgun em and charge with BP and CCW!

There is a word OR not AND. If you notice there is no free sniper rifles or importantly camo cloaks. For their price you may as well go for BA/vanilla sniper scouts with an IC as allies, opening you up to a load of cool options.

Sammael's landspeeder has always been easier to kill that has been made out. Everyone just sees av14 and some cover/jink save then thinks he is hard. Heavy flamer to the back, or melta, or of course cc, all bring him down quickly enough. On top of all that his weapons are short ranged, which does put him at risk. He is just about worth the points as bikers as troops is pretty cool.