Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

During a friendly game a couple weeks ago, I was attempting to flame a Tyranid opponent through a building window from an Ork Battlewagon filled with burna boys. The Ork battlewagon open topped makes it so shots can be fired from anywhere and templates are measured "from the hull". I moved the battle wagon alongside the building and proceded to flame the unit inside. I could cover all units inside with the 8 templates. My opponent claimed that one model was "out of site", but I was able to cover its base (as well as several other models) with a template from the hull of the battlewagon. So when the wound pool allocation time came, he claimed that the remaining 12 wounds (the rest of the unit was destroyed ) were not counted as the lone model in question was "out of sight". Personally, it was extremely questionable... So I have a few questions:

1. Does line site on an open topped vehicle count where the flamer template originate from?

2. Do wounds caused by flamer templates count against other models in the same unit on the other floors? (example: if 16 wounds are caused on the ground floor, will they make their way through the rest of the unit on the other floors once the models on the ground floor are removed?)

Just some questions. The Ork BurnaWagon setup is an extremely viable asset in my army and I am wanting to be sure I am using it properly/most effectively within the rules. Thanks!

One model being out of LOS doesn't mean the entire unit is. He will still get hit but if he's out of LOS from all firers then no wounds can be allocated to that one model.

Also, LOS for them would be "anywhere from the hull".

Templates can only hit and wound 1 floor at a time, but that won't stop you from firing multiple templates at multiple floors. Though remember you can only target one floor up or down from your position.

Don't you have to choose a floor to burn when using a template?

Was it a building or a ruin?

Shooting a unit inside a building with a Template Weapon is covered on page 94 very clearly.

Shooting a template at a unit in a ruins is covered on page 100 and 101, also very clearly. Were all of the targets models on the same level of the ruin?

A model can only burn one floor at a time, but if a unit is on multiple floors and the firing unit has multiple flamers.... Can they not target multilple floors following the one up, one down rule? Each template can only target one floor. Also, the sheer mechanics of how a flamer template works help with LOS. If the straight edge of the template (which is a straight line) can fit through a building window and cover a model, I think that would count as line of site... especially since the model in question was on the second floor, so the template went straight over its base...

 Red Pax wrote:
Don't you have to choose a floor to burn when using a template?

yes, each weapon needs to declare which level is being targeted before placing the template.

You can only target one level higher or lower with the template.

Assuming it's a Ruin, yes. You pick one level and the template weapon only hits models on that level.

If it's an actual Building, each template weapon deals d6 hits to the unit inside the building, as long as the template covers one of the access points.

 kronk wrote:
Was it a building or a ruin?

Shooting a unit inside a building with a Template Weapon is covered on page 94 very clearly.

Shooting a template at a unit in a ruins is covered on page 100 and 101, also very clearly. Were all of the targets models on the same level of the ruin?

The 4 models were 2 on ground floor and 2 on the middle floor of ruins.

And you fired a flamer at each floor? You are correct that multiple flamers can target independent floors; however, you roll for each of them separately so that you'll know how many wounds to allocate to each floor.

If you get a template over them, then they're hit. Cover doesn't mean anything to a flame template fired through a ruin.

Yes it was a ruin and I put 4 flamers on the bottom floor and 4 on the top floor from a broken out window in the GW ruin terrain that we were using... It was a kill point game which is why it was even being argued.... The Tyranid units were on the terminator sized bases so they were pretty easy to cover... That BurnaWagon setup is badass

So, if you were to flamer a floor like the book shows, you would most likely not have LOS on most of the models on the floor (one floor up). Would those wounds not be able to be allocated?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:
And you fired a flamer at each floor? You are correct that multiple flamers can target independent floors; however, you roll for each of them separately so that you'll know how many wounds to allocate to each floor.

If you get a template over them, then they're hit. Cover doesn't mean anything to a flame template fired through a ruin.

So I did make a mistake by rolling them all at once even though they were all the same models. Next time I will roll for each floor independently.

Right, you declare who is shooting at what floor and roll for that floor so you don't get them confused. (Page 101)

You're also right in that line of sight doesn't enter into it. You're firing through a ruin, so you can hit whatever is under the flame template.

Right on, thanks! Yeah, those kill point games can bring out some weird rules interpretations...

LOS sadly does enter into it now in 6th. You can't kill models out of LOS with a template weapon (remember that's a different thing than a blast or large blast marker) anymore. Remember, though, that the embarked unit can draw LOS from any part of the hull of the transport.

 Mannahnin wrote:
LOS sadly does enter into it now in 6th. You can't kill models out of LOS with a template weapon (remember that's a different thing than a blast or large blast marker) anymore. Remember, though, that the embarked unit can draw LOS from any part of the hull of the transport.

Yeah and with a flamer template, if you can touch them with it (for the most part) you can see them since it is drawn from the model firing it unlike blast templates which "leave" the firing model.

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
LOS sadly does enter into it now in 6th. You can't kill models out of LOS with a template weapon (remember that's a different thing than a blast or large blast marker) anymore. Remember, though, that the embarked unit can draw LOS from any part of the hull of the transport.

Yeah and with a flamer template, if you can touch them with it (for the most part) you can see them since it is drawn from the model firing it unlike blast templates which "leave" the firing model.

This is not necessarily true. There will be many times you can place a template over a model and not be able to draw LOS to it. In which case you cannot allocate a wound to it.