Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What would happen if say for example the first two units to be destroyed in a game destroyed each other simultaneously?

How would this happen? There is an order to everything. As far as I know this is not possible. But I am very curious to see what others have to say.

The -only- situation where this would happen is if you have 2 units swing in initiative order in hand to hand, and kill each other at the same initiative...

In that one case, I'd say it doesn't matter, because either you both get it or you both don't, and in either case it won't change who wins.

I wouldn't have a problem with it. I guess the most likely way for it to happen would be in assault between two units with the same initiative.

But it's vanishingly unlikely to happen.

Or two units are fighting over a sabotaged objective, and it explodes killing everyone

Or a small unit (1-2 models) assaults a vehicle resulting in an explosion which kills both models.

I double-checked the rulebook, and it explicitly says that both players can get the First Blood point in this kind of situation. And it uses my "most likely way" as the example.

Wow, handful of crazy examples in here. I doubt youll see it much, but I do stand corrected and now have a new goal of both my opponent and I getting the first blood vp's.

But it does not matter, as if they both get FB the score of the game does not favor anyone at that point, as it is still a tie, 1-1.

The only real way it will matter if they both get FB is in a tournament where the overall scores are cumulative.

Or a building collapse.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lordhat wrote:
Or a small unit (1-2 models) assaults a vehicle resulting in an explosion which kills both models.

That one doesn't work... The vehicle would be the first blood, in that case.

What about this: A lonely Space Marine fires his Plasma Gun at the last Termagant from a squad? The SM rolls a 1 and a 6 to hit with the Plasma Gun, rolls the 'gets hot' wound and low and behold fails the save. The other shot hits, rolls a 2, AP 2 so automatic wound. Both die at the same time.

There are an infinite number of combinations that would yield the same result.

Dandruff wrote:
What about this: A lonely Space Marine fires his Plasma Gun at the last Termagant from a squad? The SM rolls a 1 and a 6 to hit with the Plasma Gun, rolls the 'gets hot' wound and low and behold fails the save. The other shot hits, rolls a 2, AP 2 so automatic wound. Both die at the same time.

The opponent didn't kill the marine who died so would not get the first blood point.

 IcedAnimals wrote:

Dandruff wrote:
What about this: A lonely Space Marine fires his Plasma Gun at the last Termagant from a squad? The SM rolls a 1 and a 6 to hit with the Plasma Gun, rolls the 'gets hot' wound and low and behold fails the save. The other shot hits, rolls a 2, AP 2 so automatic wound. Both die at the same time.

The opponent didn't kill the marine who died so would not get the first blood point.

That does not matter.

"The first unit, of any kind, to be removed as a casualty during the game is worth 1 Victory Point to the opposing player at the end of the game." (P. 122)

Opposing player vs. Controlling player tells us that the opposing player is the opponent of the dead models controller.

Or guard artillery. A basilisk attacks a drop pod and scatters slightly, blowing up the drop pod and vaporising a nearby officer squad simultaneously. Change basilisk to manticore, and you can see how easy this might be.

Or likewise, a meltagun squad blows up a drop pod, and the explosion kills everybody in the squad, or the last straggling remnants of a nearby squad.

It's also possible with psychic powers. Coteaz is shot down to 1 HP at the top of turn 1. In return, he casts crush on something and rolls a 2 on his Ld check. Both he and the enemy are killed by the same power.

Or some sort of extremely unlikely situation where a transport tank shocks or rams in such a way where the vehicle kills whatever it attacked, but the guys inside can't disembark for some reason.

And vortex grenades... oh vortex, what can't you do?

Edit.

I've played 6 games of 6E and have had it happen twice. Both times were assaulting at the same Init step. Weird.

 DeathReaper wrote:


"The first unit, of any kind, to be removed as a casualty during the game is worth 1 Victory Point to the opposing player at the end of the game." (P. 122)

that doesnt include vehicles as they cant be removed as a casualty since they dont have wounds right?

Shabby wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:


"The first unit, of any kind, to be removed as a casualty during the game is worth 1 Victory Point to the opposing player at the end of the game." (P. 122)

that doesnt include vehicles as they cant be removed as a casualty since they dont have wounds right?

There is a huge thread on this.

The common consensus is that any unit counts.

if you take it literally then only Sweeping Advance, or running a unit off of the table counts, because that is the only way for a unit to be removed as a casualty.

I had something like this come up in one of my games maybe a wiser person than I can shed some light on this situation.

4 chaos terminators and a chaos sorcerer (attached to the unit also warlord) attacked my 5 deathwing terminators and beliel (also attached to the unit). A challenge was issued and the lord and beliel fought. In the challenge beliel won killing his sorcerer and in the normal combat his terminators won killing my deathwing squad.

the VP for slay the warlord was clear but who got firstblood was a little hazy. One of us had killed an IC and the other had killed a squad at the same time. Who got first blood? It was either both of us or neither of us.

All of the killing happened at initiative step 1.

What initiative step did each occur at?

First blood not tie blood

From wrote:
I had something like this come up in one of my games maybe a wiser person than I can shed some light on this situation.

4 chaos terminators and a chaos sorcerer (attached to the unit also warlord) attacked my 5 deathwing terminators and beliel (also attached to the unit). A challenge was issued and the lord and beliel fought. In the challenge beliel won killing his sorcerer and in the normal combat his terminators won killing my deathwing squad.

the VP for slay the warlord was clear but who got firstblood was a little hazy. One of us had killed an IC and the other had killed a squad at the same time. Who got first blood? It was either both of us or neither of us.

All of the killing happened at initiative step 1.

Since "All of the killing happened at initiative step 1" you bout can claim first blood, and there is no net gain or loss since you both score 1 point at the same time.

He ninja updated.

Here's the rulebook entry:
If two or more units from opposing forces are removed simultaneously (for example, at the same Initiative step in an Assault phase) then both players get 1 Victory Point (in
addition to any Victory Points from the mission).

Yes I did a quick update for more clarity rather than making a whole new post. The only confusion was because both "units" were a combination of an IC and a unit of models. One unit killed an IC within the other unit and the other unit killed all but the IC.