Romney says "47 percent of Americans believe they are victims" about whom he shouldn't "worry"

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**Witzkatz**

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/09/mitt_romney_in_video_almost_ha.html

WASHINGTON — Already scrambling to steady a struggling campaign, Republican Mitt Romney confronted a new headache today after a video surfaced showing him telling wealthy donors that almost half of all Americans "believe they are victims" entitled to extensive government support. He added that as a candidate for the White House, "my job is not to worry about those people."

President Barack Obama's campaign quickly seized on the video, obtained by the magazine Mother Jones and made public on a day that Romney's campaign conceded it needed a change in campaign strategy to gain momentum in the presidential race.

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what," Romney is shown saying in a video posted online by the magazine. "There are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it."

"Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax," Romney said.

Romney said his role "is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

Romney's campaign did not dispute the authenticity of the video, instead releasing a statement seeking to clarify his remarks. "Mitt Romney wants to help all Americans struggling in the Obama economy," spokeswoman Gail Gitcho said. "He is concerned about the growing number of people who are dependent on the federal government."

Does he even try anymore...?

**Grey Templar**

Yeah, whats the problem here?

People should stop being so dependent on the government giving out handouts, on the taxpayer's dollar no less.

Welfare is supposed a temporary thing. Way too many people abuse the system and just stay in their apartment drinking beer doing nothing.

Romney could have worded it a little better. he's not the best speech giver, but thats not whats important when running the country.

**Witzkatz**

What's important is that he painted everybody who does not vote for him with the broadest brush possible and declares half of the US-American population as hopeless cases relying on the government. He actually said every democrat voter isn't capable of fending for himself.

That is so broad a generalization that it shouldn't come from a possible US president, I'm sure you'll agree.

**Manchu**

I believe the saying around here goes, BLAME THE VICTIM.

**Seaward**

Witzkatz wrote:
What's important is that he painted everybody who does not vote for him with the broadest brush possible and declares half of the US-American population as hopeless cases relying on the government. He actually said every democrat voter isn't capable of fending for himself.

That is so broad a generalization that it shouldn't come from a possible US president, I'm sure you'll agree.

That wasn't what he said.

He said the 47% of the country that pays no income tax will vote for Obama no matter what because they're dependent on the government.

That's not true, of course, as it implies that 47% of the country is on welfare - not paying income tax does not mean you're on welfare, it just means you don't earn enough to qualify for income tax.

**dogma**

Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, whats the problem here?

That everything he said was correct, but that most people will interpret him incorrectly?

Oh, and that we could start talking about corporate entitlement.

**Ouze**

After posting for the last few months that I thought it would be neck and neck to November, and that it's impossible to call who'd win: At this point I no longer think Mitt Romney has a real chance of winning the election*. He really is a truly awful candidate; doing a truly awful job campaigning.

*barring an unknown unknown.

**Fafnir**

Seaward wrote:
not paying income tax does not mean you're on welfare, it just means you don't earn enough to qualify for income tax.

At which point, Romney REALLY doesn't care about you.

**Tibbsy**

Manchu wrote:
I believe the saying around here goes, BLAME THE VICTIM.

Dammit Manchu - as soon as I saw this title I knew I would have to say this - you beat me to it

**KalashnikovMarine**

Seaward wrote:
Witzkatz wrote:
What's important is that he painted everybody who does not vote for him with the broadest brush possible and declares half of the US-American population as hopeless cases relying on the government. He actually said every democrat voter isn't capable of fending for himself.

That is so broad a generalization that it shouldn't come from a possible US president, I'm sure you'll agree.

That wasn't what he said.

He said the 47% of the country that pays no income tax will vote for Obama no matter what because they're dependent on the government.

That's not true, of course, as it implies that 47% of the country is on welfare - not paying income tax does not mean you're on welfare, it just means you don't earn enough to qualify for income tax.

Which considering how little I make, and that I pay income taxes, is pretty goddamn pathetic/scary.

**deathholydeath**

For those interested in what, exactly, Romney was talking about with reference to that 47%, here's an explanation:

Mother Jones has published a video of Mitt Romney at a private fund-raiser making incendiary remarks about Obama voters – and, well, about half of the electorate.

“There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what,” Mr. Romney said. “There are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it, that that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what.”

“These are people who pay no income tax,” he added.

I’ll address just that last part in this post.

Mr. Romney is absolutely correct that about half of American households do not pay federal income tax. (He is also tapping into a now long-running vein of conservative anger at those households.) But he is missing some crucial context on why they do not pay federal income tax.

The nonpartisan and highly respected Tax Policy Center derived the 47 percent number – it is actually 46 percent, as of 2011 – and published an excellent analysis of it last summer.

It found that about half of the households that do not pay federal income tax do not pay it because they are simply too poor. The Tax Policy Center gives as an example a couple with two children earning less than $26,400 a year: The household would pay no federal income tax because its standard deduction and other exemptions would simply erase its liability.

The other half, the Tax Policy Center found, consists of households taking advantage of tax credits and other provisions, mostly support for senior citizens and low-income working families.

Put bluntly, these are not households shirking their tax liabilities. The pool consists mostly of the poor, of relatively low-income working families and of old people. The tax code is specifically designed to reduce the burden on them.

Indeed, the recession and its aftermath have left tens of millions of workers out of a job or underemployed, removing more households from payment of federal income taxes. Moreover, the Bush tax cuts – the signature Republican economic policy of the 2000s, which doubled the child tax credit, increased a number of other deductions and exemptions, and lowered marginal tax rates – erased millions of families’ federal income tax liabilities.

It is also worth noting that though tens of millions of families do not pay federal income taxes, there are virtually no families that do not pay any taxes – between payroll taxes, sales taxes, state and local taxes, and on and on.

For much more detail on the 46 (or 47) percent, read my colleague David Leonhardt’s 2010 column or my 2011 piece for Slate.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/the-reasons-behind-the-people-who-pay-no-income-tax/?hp

**whembly**

meh... *shrugs*

At worst, it's similar to Obama's "bitter clinger" remark.

He's not saying he doesn't care about them as citizens and human beings, just that he won't devote any attention to trying to cull some of their votes.

But, this'll hurt him...

**olympia**

David Brooks has given up on Romney...it's game over
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/opinion/brooks-thurston-howell-romney.html?_r=0

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The tl;dr: rich guy who gets millions in tax breaks calls half of America parasites.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
hahaha check this news story about a party previously held at a house owned by the fundraiser who hosted this event.

It was as if the Playboy Mansion met the East End at a wild party at private-equity titan Marc Leder's Bridgehampton estate, where guests cavorted nude in the pool and performed sex acts, scantily dressed Russians danced on platforms and men twirled lit torches to a booming techno beat.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/nude_frolic_in_tycoon_pool_S8t8KXKG1IeGFSDtN6Xm9M#ixzz26oCI9whw

**d-usa**

whembly wrote:
meh... *shrugs*

Of course this comes from the guy who still is very upset at Obama saying "you didn't build your own business" even though that is not what he said.

**Orlanth**

i despair of this Obama is the fething big problem, who should not be re-electable.

Most who want the Presidency prefer to stand at the end of a second term of an incumbent president, so they are not facing incumbency but this was a year for a good candidate rather than a filler candidate.

**d-usa**

This was a year that should have handed the presidency to the Republican party on a silver platter.

They managed to knock that silver platter from the table kicking and screaming.

**dogma**

Orlanth wrote:
i despair of this Obama is the fething big problem, who should not be re-electable.

Why not? You've often spoken of you dislike of the President, but why do you dislike him and believe that Americans should dislike him?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Seaward wrote:

That's not true, of course, as it implies that 47% of the country is on welfare - not paying income tax does not mean you're on welfare, it just means you don't earn enough to qualify for income tax.

It also implies that all welfare recipients will vote for Obama.

If the Romney campaign really believes that (And they probably don't.), then the issue is theirs.

**Mannahnin**

Witzkatz wrote:
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/09/mitt_romney_in_video_almost_ha.html

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what," Romney is shown saying in a video posted online by the magazine. "There are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it."

A lot of those people actually vote Republican.

What an idiot.

**Frazzled**

Witzkatz wrote:
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/09/mitt_romney_in_video_almost_ha.html

WASHINGTON — Already scrambling to steady a struggling campaign, Republican Mitt Romney confronted a new headache today after a video surfaced showing him telling wealthy donors that almost half of all Americans "believe they are victims" entitled to extensive government support. He added that as a candidate for the White House, "my job is not to worry about those people."

President Barack Obama's campaign quickly seized on the video, obtained by the magazine Mother Jones and made public on a day that Romney's campaign conceded it needed a change in campaign strategy to gain momentum in the presidential race.

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what," Romney is shown saying in a video posted online by the magazine. "There are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it."

"Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax," Romney said.

Romney said his role "is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

Romney's campaign did not dispute the authenticity of the video, instead releasing a statement seeking to clarify his remarks. "Mitt Romney wants to help all Americans struggling in the Obama economy," spokeswoman Gail Gitcho said. "He is concerned about the growing number of people who are dependent on the federal government."

Does he even try anymore...?

He's right. Half the US doesn't pay income taxes. We've become like Europe, expecting someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do. Just look at the threads on this section. Everyone's whining about how someone else is evil for the decisions they made, and they should get "help."

Only 54% of Americans think the government is doing too much. A full 67% of the party of "help me, tell me what to do" believes government should do more. The party of Kennedy is dead.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/157481/majority-say-government-doing.aspx

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Witzkatz wrote:
What's important is that he painted everybody who does not vote for him with the broadest brush possible and declares half of the US-American population as hopeless cases relying on the government. He actually said every democrat voter isn't capable of fending for himself.

That is so broad a generalization that it shouldn't come from a possible US president, I'm sure you'll agree.

I don't like Romney and it really sucks when he's right.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:
After posting for the last few months that I thought it would be neck and neck to November, and that it's impossible to call who'd win: At this point I no longer think Mitt Romney has a real chance of winning the election*. He really is a truly awful candidate; doing a truly awful job campaigning.

*barring an unknown unknown.

This is true. I am conforted that Obama's incompetence likely won't get us all killed, and that divided government will increase as the Republicans take more seats in the Senate.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

olympia wrote:
David Brooks has given up on Romney...it's game over
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/opinion/brooks-thurston-howell-romney.html?_r=0

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The tl;dr: rich guy who gets millions in tax breaks calls half of America parasites.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
hahaha check this news story about a party previously held at a house owned by the fundraiser who hosted this event.

It was as if the Playboy Mansion met the East End at a wild party at private-equity titan Marc Leder's Bridgehampton estate, where guests cavorted nude in the pool and performed sex acts, scantily dressed Russians danced on platforms and men twirled lit torches to a booming techno beat.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/nude_frolic_in_tycoon_pool_S8t8KXKG1IeGFSDtN6Xm9M#ixzz26oCI9whw

Oh Noes the NYT won't support Romney? Oh wait, you just said the NYT. You thought Pravda would?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

d-usa wrote:
This was a year that should have handed the presidency to the Republican party on a silver platter.

They managed to knock that silver platter from the table kicking and screaming.

In current US plitics, its extremely difficult to push out an incumbent, well at any level actually. I think the heavy hitters are waiting until its an even playing field.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Frazzled wrote:

He's right. Half the US doesn't pay income taxes. We've become like Europe, expecting someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do.

Do you have anything to substantiate your claim that us Europeans "expect someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do" or are you just spouting meaningless nonsense again?

**PhantomViper**

Frazzled wrote:
We've become like Europe, expecting someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do. Just look at the threads on this section. Everyone's whining about how someone else is evil for the decisions they made, and they should get "help."

You actually haven't, you wished you had become like Europe. You are worse than most European countries in ever measurable way of determining quality of life...

Spoiler:

**Frazzled**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

He's right. Half the US doesn't pay income taxes. We've become like Europe, expecting someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do.

Do you have anything to substantiate your claim that us Europeans "expect someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do" or are you just spouting meaningless nonsense again?

Greece. Spain. Italy. France.

**Tibbsy**

Frazzled wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

He's right. Half the US doesn't pay income taxes. We've become like Europe, expecting someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do.

Do you have anything to substantiate your claim that us Europeans "expect someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do" or are you just spouting meaningless nonsense again?

Greece. Spain. Italy. France.

That's 4 - What about the other 23?

**Jihadin**

2014 Everyone going to be screaming no matter who's in office

**PhantomViper**

Frazzled wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

He's right. Half the US doesn't pay income taxes. We've become like Europe, expecting someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do.

Do you have anything to substantiate your claim that us Europeans "expect someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do" or are you just spouting meaningless nonsense again?

Greece. Spain. Italy. France.

You do realise that your countrymen are worse off than the citizens of all of those countries, right? And you really should replace France with Portugal, France isn't facing economic hardship, we are.

**Frazzled**

Tibbsy wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

He's right. Half the US doesn't pay income taxes. We've become like Europe, expecting someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do.

Do you have anything to substantiate your claim that us Europeans "expect someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do" or are you just spouting meaningless nonsense again?

Greece. Spain. Italy. France.

That's 4 - What about the other 23?

Do we really want to go there? Outside of the UK, Germany (and the Scandinavian countries comprising ~4 people each) are carrying the rest of Europe.
If this latest bailout scheme doesn't work, you might see a different Germany next year. One that can say NO.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhantomViper wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

He's right. Half the US doesn't pay income taxes. We've become like Europe, expecting someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do.

Do you have anything to substantiate your claim that us Europeans "expect someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do" or are you just spouting meaningless nonsense again?

Greece. Spain. Italy. France.

You do realise that your countrymen are worse off than the citizens of all of those countries, right? And you really should replace France with Portugal, France isn't facing economic hardship, we are.

France has epic levels of riot and what a 12 hour work week now?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhantomViper wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
We've become like Europe, expecting someone else to help us, to pay for it, to tell us what to do. Just look at the threads on this section. Everyone's whining about how someone else is evil for the decisions they made, and they should get "help."

You actually haven't, you wished you had become like Europe. You are worse than most European countries in ever measurable way of determining quality of life...

Spoiler:

No I don't wish to be like Europe.

**d-usa**

Europe, somehow managing to work less hours per week and still be more productive than us.

Even with taking vacation every other month they are still more productive than the USA.

**Mannahnin**

Frazzled wrote:
Witzkatz wrote:
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/09/mitt_romney_in_video_almost_ha.html

WASHINGTON — Already scrambling to steady a struggling campaign, Republican Mitt Romney confronted a new headache today after a video surfaced showing him telling wealthy donors that almost half of all Americans "believe they are victims" entitled to extensive government support. He added that as a candidate for the White House, "my job is not to worry about those people."

President Barack Obama's campaign quickly seized on the video, obtained by the magazine Mother Jones and made public on a day that Romney's campaign conceded it needed a change in campaign strategy to gain momentum in the presidential race.

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what," Romney is shown saying in a video posted online by the magazine. "There are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it."

"Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax," Romney said.

Romney said his role "is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

Romney's campaign did not dispute the authenticity of the video, instead releasing a statement seeking to clarify his remarks. "Mitt Romney wants to help all Americans struggling in the Obama economy," spokeswoman Gail Gitcho said. "He is concerned about the growing number of people who are dependent on the federal government."

Does he even try anymore...?

He's right. Half the US doesn't pay income taxes.

Your standard of "he's right" is focusing on ONE sentence out of a bunch of sentences, and pretending that the rest of the untrue things he said were true? Are you kidding, or trolling?

Much as Mitt or other selfish or self-deluded donkey-caves might like to pretend otherwise, the Republican party is not composed exclusively of supermen and small business owners who pay all the taxes in this country. Many of its members and supporters are poor and in the same dire financial straits as the poorest Dem supporters. Mitt trying to flatter the egos of ignorant and arrogant morons by pretending that only Democrats are poor, or that all poor people support Democrats and are chronically dependent on the government, indicates that he's either a complete idiot or a bottom-feeding deceitful jackass.

Most of those 47% of people are hardworking poor families. If you or he think it's going to fix the economy to impose an income tax burden on the folks who already have challenges getting their children enough food, that's not just silly and patently inaccurate, it's pretty offensive and sad, too. I understand the previous point you've raised that you want everyone to have skin in the game, and I can respect it to a certain extent. But even that idea still falls prey to the erroneous assumption that folks who don't pay Federal income taxes aren't paying a lot of other taxes (like state income, sales tax, gas and services taxes, etc.). Which they are. Writing off everyone who doesn't pay Federal income taxes as parasites and freeloaders, charity cases and "poor me" whiners is a steaming pile of bad reasoning, victim-blaming, and general foolishness.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:
In current US plitics, its extremely difficult to push out an incumbent, well at any level actually. I think the heavy hitters are waiting until its an even playing field.

Really? This from the guy who confidently told us for months how Obama's second term was in the toilet if the unemployment numbers were above... what number, again?

Is it just that incumbents have some kind of unfair advantage, or is it maybe possible that more of the US electorate doesn't think he's incompetant?

**Frazzled**

d-usa wrote:
Europe, somehow managing to work less hours per week and still be more productive than us.

Even with taking vacation every other month they are still more productive than the USA.

No they're not. Not sure what you're smoking there.
But thats ok. I have no beef with Europe. They can do what they want. I just don't want to be Europe. Nor do I want to be Asia, or Africa. Ok maybe Australia. The whole killer drop bear/crocodile combo is intriguing.

**Jihadin**

Slow down people....6 Nov not here yet....jumping the gun on screaming and yelling and chest thumping