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I have a query...

I am playing in an Apoc game in the next month are so. It will probably be my 'Crons teaming up with my friends Orks against a big marine/IG force.

I understand that most of the powers/add-ons won't benefit both of our teams armies - what with no being Battle brother on the allied matrix and all....but what about powers that affcet the entire table?

i'm thinking specifically of the Solar Pulse.

I plan on taking Imhotekh to get Nightfighting and the Storm (only really worth it in apoc games IMHO) and then take a couple of Pulses so that in my turn i dont have to worry about the Stealth/Shrouded saves.

Would my orky team-mate also benefit if i fired off a Solar Pulse in our teams turn? Common sense suggests it would as it alters the entire table, not just my army - but i am unsure of the exact rule wording and so not 100% sure if it JUST applies to my necrons.



edit - changed the title to make more sense

Yes, orcs get all the bonuses from that ability.

But consider that any ability like lightning, which in a normal game is unimited, in Apoc acting by 72 inches.

Im not positive about the solar but im pretty sure it ignores night fight for that turn. Which means for that player turn there is no night fight.

But also, Imhoteks lightning will hit your allied orks as well. The lightning says "roll a d6 for all enemy units" and seeing how orks and necrons are not battle brothers they are treated as enemy models

Oh yeah, never though of that.

Thanks for the warning!



I am right in that the 40k allies matrix in the rule book also carries over to Apoc, right?

 Praxiss wrote:

I am right in that the 40k allies matrix in the rule book also carries over to Apoc, right?

We use a new matrix.

 Praxiss wrote:
Oh yeah, never though of that.

Thanks for the warning!



I am right in that the 40k allies matrix in the rule book also carries over to Apoc, right?

No, as you can take units from any codex in Apoc.

So you can have Tyranids allied with anyone in apocalypse games.

Yeah, but you still go by the "battle brother" etc rankings in the rulebook?

Imhotek's lightning effecting Ork allies would defiantly be fitting. Considering he hates the Greenskins above all else and has vowed to exterminate them.
No idea how you'd get him to ally with them, but that's just fluff not rules.

 grendel083 wrote:
Imhotek's lightning effecting Ork allies would defiantly be fitting. Considering he hates the Greenskins above all else and has vowed to exterminate them.
No idea how you'd get him to ally with them, but that's just fluff not rules.

but wouldn't his lightning ability be targeting his allies? And therefore the allied orks should not be affected from that at least.

yeah, fluff-wise it is tenuous at best.

But orks is the only apoc size army my friend has. I'm still hopign he might have his Slaanesh army ready in time but it's doubtful.

 Praxiss wrote:
Yeah, but you still go by the "battle brother" etc rankings in the rulebook?

It would not be a stretch to use the allies rules in Apoc games.

you may have to make extra rules for things that list 'Come the apocalypse' though, as desperate allies only loosely covers it.

I don't see why we need stick to the Allies matrix. People did play allies before that, you know.

Lightning hits enemy models. Orks are not enemies. Lightning doesn't hit Orks.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I don't see why we need stick to the Allies matrix. People did play allies before that, you know.

Lightning hits enemy models. Orks are not enemies. Lightning doesn't hit Orks.

?? Well, they may have used them before but it's different now, so the past doesn't matter. Necrons are not "friendly" with any other army. Read the rules on allies and you'll see. Unless you want to play it a different way, that's your house rule.

As it is now, any ally with necrons will get blasted by lightning. And really, do you think the necrons would care?

Most armies wouldn't. I once witnessed a 1.5k Space Wolves/1.5k Tau team-up vs 3k of Chaos Marines. It worked fine, each player on the allied team using the general rule of thumb to not attack each other.

The allies matrix is already stupid with regards to canon, so the canon argument is gone. As for using houseruled allies, well... can these Necrons shoot enemies in combat with those Orks? Can the Orks and Necrons start melee with each other for lolz and to deny shots being taken at them?

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Most armies wouldn't. I once witnessed a 1.5k Space Wolves/1.5k Tau team-up vs 3k of Chaos Marines. It worked fine, each player on the allied team using the general rule of thumb to not attack each other.

The allies matrix is already stupid with regards to canon, so the canon argument is gone. As for using houseruled allies, well... can these Necrons shoot enemies in combat with those Orks? Can the Orks and Necrons start melee with each other for lolz and to deny shots being taken at them?

What you described sounded like a 2 on 1 battle, not an actual "allies detachment". Correct me if I'm misunderstanding.

Also, I don't really care about canon, personally. To answer your questions, No and No. But, the first one is simply the game mechanic doesn't allow that. The second one is because of how the ally rules work.

Again, the rules a framework, nothing set in stone. You're free to do whatever you want with them.

In his defense i am not talking about taking an Ork allied detachment. i am talking about a 2 on 2 battle.

Maybe instead of "Allies" i shoudl be saying "Team-mates".

So - in a 2v2 game of Apoc - would Inmotekhs lightning attack an ork "team Mates" army as well as the forces of the opposing team?

it's abit confusing as the matrix in the rulebook has an options that says soemthgin like "Come the apocolypse" which i took as meanign these armies can only ally in apoc games.....so does that mean that Apoc is still anything goes and the allied matrix does nto apply?

Thats a whole new ballpark. That changes everything.

No chart will effect how those two interact unless it specifically says it does. Orks wouldn't be an allied detatchemtn there, they would be under the control of another player.

 Darog wrote:
But consider that any ability like lightning, which in a normal game is unimited, in Apoc acting by 72 inches.

Not true. This is a popular house rule, but Apocalypse says nothing about range reduction. The only rule limiting ranges to 72" is specifically applied to only the FW alternate Apocalypse missions in the IA books, not to "basic" Apocalypse games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Praxiss wrote:
So - in a 2v2 game of Apoc - would Inmotekhs lightning attack an ork "team Mates" army as well as the forces of the opposing team?

I'd say that the rules for Apocalypse army construction (take any units from codex/list you want, in any combination) replace the normal 40k rules (one allied detachment, use the allies matrix), and all models on a team are considered to be part of the same army.

 Praxiss wrote:
I have a query...

I am playing in an Apoc game in the next month are so. It will probably be my 'Crons teaming up with my friends Orks against a big marine/IG force.

I understand that most of the powers/add-ons won't benefit both of our teams armies - what with no being Battle brother on the allied matrix and all....but what about powers that affcet the entire table?

i'm thinking specifically of the Solar Pulse.

I plan on taking Imhotekh to get Nightfighting and the Storm (only really worth it in apoc games IMHO) and then take a couple of Pulses so that in my turn i dont have to worry about the Stealth/Shrouded saves.

Doesn't the solar pulse stop the lightning from Lord of Storm?

Irritatingly enough, yes. I dont get how making it brighter outside is supposed to stop a lightning storm but eh, you have it in the FAQ.

I do have to ask though, I know errata is law, but is the FAQ section? I've heard both ways on that quesiton.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Most armies wouldn't. I once witnessed a 1.5k Space Wolves/1.5k Tau team-up vs 3k of Chaos Marines. It worked fine, each player on the allied team using the general rule of thumb to not attack each other.

The allies matrix is already stupid with regards to canon, so the canon argument is gone. As for using houseruled allies, well... can these Necrons shoot enemies in combat with those Orks? Can the Orks and Necrons start melee with each other for lolz and to deny shots being taken at them?

What you described sounded like a 2 on 1 battle, not an actual "allies detachment". Correct me if I'm misunderstanding.

Also, I don't really care about canon, personally. To answer your questions, No and No. But, the first one is simply the game mechanic doesn't allow that. The second one is because of how the ally rules work.

That's because it was! The Allies matrix, as far as I understand, is more for one player to play two 'armies', so to speak, as opposed to two players on a single 'team'.

Game mechanics, as far as I'm aware, don't cover enemy vs enemy combats, but if the Orks are enemies, then the Necron should be able to attack them and vice versa. This is what I meant! They're not enemies, they're allies, in the literal sense - just not Allies, the game mechanic, as per the matrix.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Most armies wouldn't. I once witnessed a 1.5k Space Wolves/1.5k Tau team-up vs 3k of Chaos Marines. It worked fine, each player on the allied team using the general rule of thumb to not attack each other.

The allies matrix is already stupid with regards to canon, so the canon argument is gone. As for using houseruled allies, well... can these Necrons shoot enemies in combat with those Orks? Can the Orks and Necrons start melee with each other for lolz and to deny shots being taken at them?

What you described sounded like a 2 on 1 battle, not an actual "allies detachment". Correct me if I'm misunderstanding.

Also, I don't really care about canon, personally. To answer your questions, No and No. But, the first one is simply the game mechanic doesn't allow that. The second one is because of how the ally rules work.

That's because it was! The Allies matrix, as far as I understand, is more for one player to play two 'armies', so to speak, as opposed to two players on a single 'team'.

Game mechanics, as far as I'm aware, don't cover enemy vs enemy combats, but if the Orks are enemies, then the Necron should be able to attack them and vice versa. This is what I meant! They're not enemies, they're allies, in the literal sense - just not Allies, the game mechanic, as per the matrix.

Well, that's why it's covered in the allies rule where it says they're treated as enemies that you can't shoot, assault, target with beneficial psychic powers or place blast/templates over them purposely. But they are still "enemy" units for other purposes. However, there are distinct differences for objective snatching, even though they are enemies, allies of convenience can deny and score, desperate allies can not.

Battles with more than 1 player per side are played however you decide to play them.