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Hello,

Very interested in a problem dealing with those pesky guard. I'm playing the second game against guard in a few weeks and so have a little time for a re-org. I'll outline my forces, based on the battleforce:

1 Overlord
1 Lord
2 Cryteks
20 Warriors
5 Immortal /w gauss blasters
1 Doomscythe
1 Ghost Ark
2 Destroyers
5 Canoptek Scarabs

IG fields a mix of tanks and infantry, and has a range of veteran squads, 30+man squads, lascanon teams, a Valkyrie, Marbo, and a command team.


Last time after turn 4 the only Necron standing was the Overlord. Perhaps a little unlucky with the res-orb rolls, and the immortals breaking and running off the table didn't help.

Basically I was completely out gunned. Whatever I tried, I got x5 the amount of firepower back, and my troops went down so easily. Since then, I've got the two overlord figures Trayzan and Anrakyr the traveler, hoping they will boost my team with nifty combat and tank-stealing abilities.

Realistically, I think I want to get either:
A triach stalker as a force multiplier with targetters
A squad of wraiths to rip through the guard lines
A shard for massive damage output
A command barge
or
Another doomscythe.

Be very interested to see what people think or how the army can be boosted to try go get a bit more fire onto the guard, boost survivability and take objectives too.

Thanks,

Lord Ffyllotek

I'm not experienced with necron lists, but the one I come up against and consistently causes me a headache is warrior spam. He normally has 50 warriors minimum in 1500pts. I can't get close to shoot with Ap2 because gauss just destroys my tanks/transports.

The problem is that your army is a phalanx and your enemy is likely a gun-line. Just like in real life, gun-lines beat such formations.

However, all is not lost my fellow necron lord. Such armies have a real problem with mobility and reaction. Necrons have alot of options, flyers, teleportation, and fast vehicles to keep your opponent on their toes and deliver hurt right where you need it.

A fun option against units like melta-vets is to take sword and board lychguard with obyron attached and teleport right next to them. If they shoot there's a good chance if it being hit back and if they don't they will be butchered in CC next turn.

Wraiths with or without a destroyer lord are also excellent against guard due to their mobility and inval save.

CCBs are also great against parking lot imperial guard as their sweep attacks will make a mess of things.

Thanks Griddlol and Buddha,

Buddha, I understand the maneuverability aspect, but his forces seemed pretty mobile, with 4 tanks and a Valkyrie for transport. Marbo appeared out of nowhere, too.

I am hoping to put Tranzyn with a teleporting Cryptek and jump next to his best tank, steal it for a turn and use it to rain death on infantry.

I am very much taken by the idea of Lychguard. I could probably stretch to 3 wraiths and 5 Lychguard models. Maybe the perfect combo of invulnerable saves and raw power in CC.

Last time I tried to get into CC, I was shot at first by a 30-man squad (rapid firing laser guns with orders to Fire On My Target!) and then faced 30 snatch fire rapid fire during the charge. Wasn't much left of my attack after that!

While scarabs die in droves to blast templates you may still want to consider a small farm. Say 10 with the 2-3 spyders feeding them. Spread them out to their max in either a line or a circle. How about Imotek with a chronotek to give the farm some cover until you can get in charge range. By then you'll have spit out 4-6 more scarabs to join the charge. I did something similar to a buddy's bastion. Only 4 scarabs made it to the back corner of the board but in one turn they took down the bastion destroying the gun emplacement, all of the heavy bolter emplacements and killing some troops inside who didn't survive the collapse.

If you're lucky the tanks will be somewhat clumped up and you can multi assault with the scarabs.

How about 5 man warrior squads in night scythes? As long as you only move the scythes 24" and jump out 6" they can shoot to their full affect. Throw in a stormtek with them and watch his little haywire 4 shot gun do it's business. Two of those along with the scarabs should mess up his armor.

Doom scythes can be nice against parking lots but the IG player will learn quickly to spread hist stuff out - no AV12 walls that's for sure!

necron99 wrote:
While scarabs die in droves to blast templates you may still want to consider a small farm. Say 10 with the 2-3 spyders feeding them. Spread them out to their max in either a line or a circle. How about Imotek with a chronotek to give the farm some cover until you can get in charge range. By then you'll have spit out 4-6 more scarabs to join the charge. I did something similar to a buddy's bastion. Only 4 scarabs made it to the back corner of the board but in one turn they took down the bastion destroying the gun emplacement, all of the heavy bolter emplacements and killing some troops inside who didn't survive the collapse.

If you're lucky the tanks will be somewhat clumped up and you can multi assault with the scarabs.

How about 5 man warrior squads in night scythes? As long as you only move the scythes 24" and jump out 6" they can shoot to their full affect. Throw in a stormtek with them and watch his little haywire 4 shot gun do it's business. Two of those along with the scarabs should mess up his armor.

Doom scythes can be nice against parking lots but the IG player will learn quickly to spread hist stuff out - no AV12 walls that's for sure!

Scarabs don't die in droves to templates and blasts anymore, the wounds are double after allocation so if they cause ID it's still just one base gone instead of two now.

Granted, they will still get killed easily by them, but not as bad as before, thankfully.

oooooooooooooo...........I didn't notice that little tweak. So, yes, they die easily just apparently not as often...good deal

Thanks for all your comments.

I'm thinking either bringing two out of:
3 Wraiths
1 Doomscythe
5 Lychguard


Thank you for all your help. What do you think of my HQ choices, the overlords Anrakyr and Trazyn?

Ffyllotek wrote:
Thanks for all your comments.

I'm thinking either bringing two out of:
3 Wraiths
1 Doomscythe
5 Lychguard


Thank you for all your help. What do you think of my HQ choices, the overlords Anaztyr and Trazyn?

Trazyn could be handy against the blob squads if you can deliver him. Anrakyr would be good as well for using your enemies strength against them. Both are solid choices, really, but Trazyn really benefits more if you can put him in a strong squad that isn't a scoring unit already (such as lychguard). If you get lucky and roll up Tenacity as your warlord trait for him, you'll pretty much never get rolled off of an objective with him and a good strong unit.

Thanks, good info. Now to get my enemy to agree to me having 3HQ slots... those Overlords with everything are gods! He didn't even get scratched the turn a guard army fired everything at him!

Ffyllotek wrote:
Thanks, good info. Now to get my enemy to agree to me having 3HQ slots... those Overlords with everything are gods! He didn't even get scratched the turn a guard army fired everything at him!

If you really want three HQ's then take Zahndrekh, Obyron and any other HQ. It's legal, at least, if not a bit pricey on points.

Do you have the upgrade that forces the opponent to use nightfighting, because that thing is a pain in the arse for any IG player. Not as bad as 5th, but still annoying.

 Kevin949 wrote:

necron99 wrote:
While scarabs die in droves to blast templates you may still want to consider a small farm. Say 10 with the 2-3 spyders feeding them. Spread them out to their max in either a line or a circle. How about Imotek with a chronotek to give the farm some cover until you can get in charge range. By then you'll have spit out 4-6 more scarabs to join the charge. I did something similar to a buddy's bastion. Only 4 scarabs made it to the back corner of the board but in one turn they took down the bastion destroying the gun emplacement, all of the heavy bolter emplacements and killing some troops inside who didn't survive the collapse.

If you're lucky the tanks will be somewhat clumped up and you can multi assault with the scarabs.

How about 5 man warrior squads in night scythes? As long as you only move the scythes 24" and jump out 6" they can shoot to their full affect. Throw in a stormtek with them and watch his little haywire 4 shot gun do it's business. Two of those along with the scarabs should mess up his armor.

Doom scythes can be nice against parking lots but the IG player will learn quickly to spread hist stuff out - no AV12 walls that's for sure!

Scarabs don't die in droves to templates and blasts anymore, the wounds are double after allocation so if they cause ID it's still just one base gone instead of two now.

Granted, they will still get killed easily by them, but not as bad as before, thankfully.

Where can I find this in the rule book? This is some good stuff man

I would definitely go with more warriors as a start. Also as said above Lychguard wraiths etc. work really well, but you need a solid warrior core.

As MrMoustaffa suggested, use solar pulse with a destruction cryptek. Night fighting for a turn will give your guys a better chance at getting close. Especially useful since some of our old heavy hitters lost some range with the newest codex. Annoys IG to no end in my experience.

Despairtek with veil, plus 2 stormteks.

110 points for a teleporting unit that has an excellent chance of killing a tank every turn. They have to deal with it. At the very least it will almost definitely make its points back and be a huge distraction.

Plus, with the template weapon it can be effective against blob squads. I like to throw in the lightning field for 10 points, so that if it's charged it deals D6 S8 + wall of death.

PS: 2 x Assault 4, BS4 haywire shots (stormteks) have a 94.5% chance of killing a 3 hullpoint vehicle in one volley, and an 84.3% chance of killing a 4 hull point vehicle

Yeah, solar pulses are a HUGE pain. Take two (or more), and add in regular night-fight (and even a warlord trait if you want), and you can literally keep your guard opponent in the dark for most of the game.

Also, if you take ark spam, it's going to be an uphill battle for the guard player. AV13 spam, where everything gets a jink save is going to be pretty tough to deal with. Mass medium strength spam just isn't going to cut it, while guard's access to higher strength stuff is generally limited to one shot per unit per turn.

Add to this gauss and tesla. Tesla will make a huge mess of foot guard (the amount of damage an annihilation barge or two is seriously uncool), plus arcing, plus chariots of death. To see what a necron list can do to foot guard at the moment, click here. As for mech guard, they are really, really, REALLY going to hate gauss weapons. Add to that death rays that can easily blow up a couple of vehicles at a time on a flier that's only hit on 6's (along with said AV13 vehicles and chariots), and your guard opponent should be facing a pretty uphill battle.

Necron are arguably the best army at the moment, and non-vendetta guard recently got relegated to the middle of the pack, at best. Just throw down a strong list, and you shouldn't be having too many problems here.

 Ailaros wrote:
Yeah, solar pulses are a HUGE pain. Take two (or more), and add in regular night-fight (and even a warlord trait if you want), and you can literally keep your guard opponent in the dark for most of the game.

I wouldn't count on this too much unless you're fighting foot IG. IG get free or cheap searchlights on every single vehicle in the codex, so it's pretty easy for any random Chimera to light up a target and remove your cover saves. And since the solar pulse is one-way night fighting the "you can see me" drawback of searchlights doesn't matter. Against mech IG you'll quickly find that you're paying points to gain a cover save against some random multilaser fire and maybe the leftover second-tier shooting units that didn't get a Chimera assigned to them.

Use the doom scythe

 Sushi636 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

necron99 wrote:
While scarabs die in droves to blast templates you may still want to consider a small farm. Say 10 with the 2-3 spyders feeding them. Spread them out to their max in either a line or a circle. How about Imotek with a chronotek to give the farm some cover until you can get in charge range. By then you'll have spit out 4-6 more scarabs to join the charge. I did something similar to a buddy's bastion. Only 4 scarabs made it to the back corner of the board but in one turn they took down the bastion destroying the gun emplacement, all of the heavy bolter emplacements and killing some troops inside who didn't survive the collapse.

If you're lucky the tanks will be somewhat clumped up and you can multi assault with the scarabs.

How about 5 man warrior squads in night scythes? As long as you only move the scythes 24" and jump out 6" they can shoot to their full affect. Throw in a stormtek with them and watch his little haywire 4 shot gun do it's business. Two of those along with the scarabs should mess up his armor.

Doom scythes can be nice against parking lots but the IG player will learn quickly to spread hist stuff out - no AV12 walls that's for sure!

Scarabs don't die in droves to templates and blasts anymore, the wounds are double after allocation so if they cause ID it's still just one base gone instead of two now.

Granted, they will still get killed easily by them, but not as bad as before, thankfully.

Where can I find this in the rule book? This is some good stuff man

There's not really *a place* to find it, it's just how the rules work now as opposed to fifth. If you read up on the swarms rule and look closely at how wound allocation works now it becomes apparent. Since we deal with wound pools now that have wounds removed effectively 1 by 1 (even by fast dice rolling, you're still following the normal order of operations, wounds aren't suffered until they're allocated. When a wound is allocated if it becomes two or three or a hundred wounds at that point, they're all still applied to the model that had the original wound because nothing shows that the wounds should go back in the wound pool. So, when a scarab gets hit by a str6 blast, when you allocate the wound it is then doubled and both wounds are allocated to that one base.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
Yeah, solar pulses are a HUGE pain. Take two (or more), and add in regular night-fight (and even a warlord trait if you want), and you can literally keep your guard opponent in the dark for most of the game.

You can't take more than 2, unless you're playing with more than 1 primary detachment.

Or Imotekh.

Imotekh+2 Doomscythes+AV13 wall= one pissed Guard player.

Imo gives night fighting w/ lightning (once de-artillery'd an IG player my turn 1 with Imos lightning), DScythes take out that carpark, av13 sponges whatever comes back w/ ~60% of the glances/pens Jinked off (shrouded)