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I have a friend who plays Space Wolves, and since 6th Edition came out, he has been pretty unsatisfied with his 6th Edition play experience.

In general, his beef with 6th Edition seems to be that he now has a lot models that he bought for 5th Edition that he now feels are somewhat useless. For example, he bought 30 Wolf Scouts who now cannot assault from reserve. He also hates the fact that Space Wolves have no AA in their codex and no flyers, but on this point I do agree with him, I can't understand why GW would shaft them like that.

There are other things too, but I have tried explaining to him that Space Wolves where a top tier army in 5th edition and kinda only had one direction they could move, thats down. I have tried suggesting things to him, most of which he has shot down as cheesy, such as Terminator heavy lists, bringing alot of Rune Priests. Another thing one of our other friends has suggested is to play Space Wolves as a shooting army, but my friend said he shouldn't be force to play a shooting heavy army just to be competitive, which I kinda agree with.

So what I am asking for here is, what are you other Space Wolves player doing in 6th Edition?

Scouts still work, but he needs to load them up for a devastating shooting attack the turn they come in. That means lots of plasma and tossing of grenades.

In 10 years, I myself, have never had one of my units charged by wolf scouts the turn they show up. If you know they are in the list, you just make sure your 12.1" in from your back edge by turn 2. So in my mind, nothing has changed. They show up, shoot something in the butt, wither a round of return fire, then either shoot again or go assault something. However, an edition change can and usually does change how specialist units work. And if you have taken multiples of these, there is a strong chance they may no longer perform how you expect. Its happened every time there has been an edition change. Nothing new here.

Wolves are just fine and still do just fine in assault. However, just like everybody else, assault got slowed down a little. TWC still hit hard. Swift Claws and SkyClaws all get Hammer of Wrath attacks. Our WG terminators are the perfect swiss army knife with wolfclaw/p-fist combo.

I just run GH at my enemy, get into a headbutting competition, and anything that has a harder skull (there's not many of them) I outnumber them so sink beer 'eadbutt the enemy.

Does he field WGT? Wolf guard terms, as said, is the perfect swiss army knife- you don't need to fork out for claws/p-fists. Your paying for a cheaper terminator with a power weapon to start off with, an axe/sword/maul is fine. Combiweapons, heavies, 2+5++, you can stick a stormshield or two up front to do what I have jokingly named the Son's of Telamon- the SS' takes the heat whilst the rest of the squad sits back and fires(Ajax/Teucer, yeah?). Also PA wolfguard can be added in for extra wounds/firepower that are cheaper, an extra couple of combiplasma's aren't too expensive and add shots/bodies. You can pod them, you can walk them, you can drive them, you can outflank them. I'd recommend your friend examine wolf guard, and stick away from outflanking 30 scouts.

I agree, your friend shouldn't be forced to play a shooting heavy army. but what kind of army IS he trying to play? afaik wolves play either the 0-24" band like pro's, or form a gunline. They aren't a assault based army, more of a close range army.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
I have a friend who plays Space Wolves, and since 6th Edition came out, he has been pretty unsatisfied with his 6th Edition play experience.

In general, his beef with 6th Edition seems to be that he now has a lot models that he bought for 5th Edition that he now feels are somewhat useless. For example, he bought 30 Wolf Scouts who now cannot assault from reserve. He also hates the fact that Space Wolves have no AA in their codex and no flyers, but on this point I do agree with him, I can't understand why GW would shaft them like that.

There are other things too, but I have tried explaining to him that Space Wolves where a top tier army in 5th edition and kinda only had one direction they could move, thats down. I have tried suggesting things to him, most of which he has shot down as cheesy, such as Terminator heavy lists, bringing alot of Rune Priests. Another thing one of our other friends has suggested is to play Space Wolves as a shooting army, but my friend said he shouldn't be force to play a shooting heavy army just to be competitive, which I kinda agree with.

So what I am asking for here is, what are you other Space Wolves player doing in 6th Edition?

If he is stuck on wanting to play the game like it was, yes he will be disapointed with 6th.

As for AA take a defence line or a tower convert some scouts to snipers and plop them there.

i play a logan wing army and love it. it can be done with Termies or PA either way you take alot of wolf gaurd and rhinos if your in PA run up to mid range abd POW!
i like my termie army a walking wall of death. slow but wont die.

and i agree i never got a space wolf scout assault off except for one tau player who wasnt paying attenton.

biggest piece of advice is suck it up its the new game. if your one trick pony is dead no sense in beating it

It is funny, I have a friend who is complaining about how much GK suck in 6th edition also just because their force weapons took a beating

its like you said, if you are on the top, you got nowhere to go but down. Space wolves has gone worse this edition but I salute GW for it because they really try now to even out the codices (im a space wolves player btw).

the days of 30 scouts is probably over im afraid. He could hate GW for it but I would suggest he would buy some new models :/

if he likes scouts he could still run 2 units of 5 scouts with melta, cheap and cheerfull

otherwise

lone wolves in terminator armor with chainfist and stormshield is awsome

all HQ choices we got is awsome (except the named characters)

grey hunters are able to go outflanking now which could be something for your friend if he likes outflanking (simply put them with a HQ with saga of the hunter) - they can even take a rhino

or if you think you have the points HQw/hunter + 9 wolf guards with some equipment in a land raider can outflank since a landraider can be dedicated transport, in this case they will probably survive first round of shooting better and they can assault the following turn

if he wants close combat - units of fenrisian wolves (backed up with saga of the wolfkin) can now very fast get in to close combat with I5-attacks

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
I have a friend who plays Space Wolves, and since 6th Edition came out, he has been pretty unsatisfied with his 6th Edition play experience.

In general, his beef with 6th Edition seems to be that he now has a lot models that he bought for 5th Edition that he now feels are somewhat useless. For example, he bought 30 Wolf Scouts who now cannot assault from reserve. He also hates the fact that Space Wolves have no AA in their codex and no flyers, but on this point I do agree with him, I can't understand why GW would shaft them like that.

There are other things too, but I have tried explaining to him that Space Wolves where a top tier army in 5th edition and kinda only had one direction they could move, thats down. I have tried suggesting things to him, most of which he has shot down as cheesy, such as Terminator heavy lists, bringing alot of Rune Priests. Another thing one of our other friends has suggested is to play Space Wolves as a shooting army, but my friend said he shouldn't be force to play a shooting heavy army just to be competitive, which I kinda agree with.

So what I am asking for here is, what are you other Space Wolves player doing in 6th Edition?

I think your friend is just in an adjustment period and is reluctant to change. Every army has AA now, with Fortifications, and mysterious objectives, and allies. I mean your telling me long fangs firing an Icarus Lascannon, or a quad gun isn't awesome? or an allied Storm Talon or Storm Raven!? Valkyrie!?

Your friend is reluctant to take any of the advice you have offered him and is stuck in sour grapes mode. His build doesn't work anymore, the game has changed. Either adapt and comply or stop playing. I hate to sound that harsh, but what else can you say to a person who just doesn't want to take advice, and just wants to insult the game.

The Grey Hunters continue to be one of the best (if not the best) troop choice in the game. Cheap, good, variety of options... TWC is still awesome. Lone Wolves are still awesome. Long fangs... really!? some of the best psychic defense (and offense honestly) in the game now. The ability to put Terminators in every grey hunter unit is great, giving the unit a 2+ save most of the time. I could go on and on about how great each choice is, but until your friend really sits down and digests what 6th edition is now... he's going to continue to find these frustrations.

I think more than any other incarnation of 40k, 6th edition encourages the use of good balanced TAC lists. There are many ways to spam Deathstars or new tricks (flyers etc...), but in the end a good and well used All Comers list should have the tools to handle any situation and at least compete for the mission.... and honestly Space Wolves continue to create incredibly good All Comers lists. Hopefully your friend will learn to understand this through the new 6th edition lenses.

Sorry if that was harsh, but sometimes tough love is the only kind of love... and your friend sounds like he needs some tough love.

 Gangrel767 wrote:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
I have a friend who plays Space Wolves, and since 6th Edition came out, he has been pretty unsatisfied with his 6th Edition play experience.

In general, his beef with 6th Edition seems to be that he now has a lot models that he bought for 5th Edition that he now feels are somewhat useless. For example, he bought 30 Wolf Scouts who now cannot assault from reserve. He also hates the fact that Space Wolves have no AA in their codex and no flyers, but on this point I do agree with him, I can't understand why GW would shaft them like that.

There are other things too, but I have tried explaining to him that Space Wolves where a top tier army in 5th edition and kinda only had one direction they could move, thats down. I have tried suggesting things to him, most of which he has shot down as cheesy, such as Terminator heavy lists, bringing alot of Rune Priests. Another thing one of our other friends has suggested is to play Space Wolves as a shooting army, but my friend said he shouldn't be force to play a shooting heavy army just to be competitive, which I kinda agree with.

So what I am asking for here is, what are you other Space Wolves player doing in 6th Edition?

I think your friend is just in an adjustment period and is reluctant to change. Every army has AA now, with Fortifications, and mysterious objectives, and allies. I mean your telling me long fangs firing an Icarus Lascannon, or a quad gun isn't awesome? or an allied Storm Talon or Storm Raven!? Valkyrie!?

Your friend is reluctant to take any of the advice you have offered him and is stuck in sour grapes mode. His build doesn't work anymore, the game has changed. Either adapt and comply or stop playing. I hate to sound that harsh, but what else can you say to a person who just doesn't want to take advice, and just wants to insult the game.

The Grey Hunters continue to be one of the best (if not the best) troop choice in the game. Cheap, good, variety of options... TWC is still awesome. Lone Wolves are still awesome. Long fangs... really!? some of the best psychic defense (and offense honestly) in the game now. The ability to put Terminators in every grey hunter unit is great, giving the unit a 2+ save most of the time. I could go on and on about how great each choice is, but until your friend really sits down and digests what 6th edition is now... he's going to continue to find these frustrations.

I think more than any other incarnation of 40k, 6th edition encourages the use of good balanced TAC lists. There are many ways to spam Deathstars or new tricks (flyers etc...), but in the end a good and well used All Comers list should have the tools to handle any situation and at least compete for the mission.... and honestly Space Wolves continue to create incredibly good All Comers lists. Hopefully your friend will learn to understand this through the new 6th edition lenses.

Sorry if that was harsh, but sometimes tough love is the only kind of love... and your friend sounds like he needs some tough love.

Not to mention pouring all your money into scouts because you like outflanking is good but subscribing to one tactic is the ultimate to set yourself up to fail with an army because if the edition hadn't of done it , a codex restart would probably do it instead. GW works in this tendency to promote spending for their armies, it was rare to see people BUY terminators or 2+ armor unless it was already amazing in the game such as broadsides. But now you see artillery and terminator style characters spammed in lists knowing that 2+ armor is nearly unstoppable by anything but the most fanatical gunline armies.

In last edition assualting was the best way to avoid gunfire and crush the enemy in relative safety. Now and days very few competitive lists I see are CC FOCUSED anymore but that doesn't mean they aren't amazing in CC still. for example as orks now and days I don't just run headlong into CC i wade through and take my time wearing down the enemy as I advance into 14 inch range. Once I am about that close I let my enemy know that i am about to start an ugly round with moving shooting and assualting in relative safety and my CC will become overkill for the enemy.

Not having flyers is an INCREDIBLY common complaint.. and honestly... people need to stop whining, the ability to outright stop all fliers with ageis defense line quad-gun is the best way I know how to stop flyers from ever having fun. Even then most gunfire takes down any of the fliers save the vendetta which a bit of luck is involved... no different than tangoing with leman russ' from a distance in front armor... just sucks to do.

Grey Hunters can outright stop a charging 30 boy ork squad, striking first with rending + power weapons + free flamers + rapid fire overwatch+ counter attack + MEQ stats & armor = not likely to die for a mere 15 pts... I would KILL for something THAT useful in the Ork Codex... KILL. If you buddy isn't having fun in this edition I would bet to say it is because he refuses to alter, i understand more than most the simple love of "JUST WANTING TO PUNCH SOMEHING" but guess what?

This edition got more realistic, someone cannot simply CHARGE into CC and not expect to get shot to heck for blindly and dumbly rushing. He needs to twiddle ranks down, he needs to launch dreadnoughts in enemy rear lines with a multi-melta and crack open a dangerous vehicle and then next round assualt whatever it likes or blow smoke to avoid retribution. That tactic has worked beautifully for my room-mate as he either meltas or heavy flamers anything that is weak enough to hopefully grab first blood, if he did or didnt he tries to get in CC on round 2... same time scouts could come in from a flank and ruin escape routes forcing the enemy to take 2 options bite the bullet and come to your baits or run from them into your more traditional ranges of gunfire.

I love space wolves, love them i think they have some of the most awesome flexibility in the game and love using them as a more tactically variant army than orks. While Orks may be adaptable with our lists Space wolves imo are the undisputed badasses of hybrid armies. They are great shots, with great close combat and no problem is normally too big for them, if they don't get access to scout speeders, fliers, artillery or iron-clad dreadnoughts that is cause they simply are THAT good of soliders.

Your friend needs to use the tools he is given; they are powerful and impressive from my POV not to mention: Allies, Aegis Defense line, Squad Gun and luck are available to any and all players if he refuses to change even a little than he won't see ...even a little change in his preformance; end of story.

Like this poster as well, i don't like chewing people out but "THE RULES" shouldn't be a point of complaint all armies have to abide by them and nearly every army... nid and orks included no longer do things we use to. It impacted some and aided others that is the name of the game with an edition change. If this guy just wants a powerful list rather than collect an army he is going to have alot of growing pains.

I bought at least 1 squad of everything in the orky codex (with some exceptions) and this served me well with the changes to the army in this edition

here is my advice, your friend needs to invest in things that "Shouldn't alter much" troops, heavies, and HQ's having 30 scouts was just begging for rule hammering. Same for my tactic of kan wall, yeah it worked amazingly well back in the the day but now it hurts to use. anything TOO EFFECTIVE more often than not won't remain that way... it's a bit of advise but no matter what they change about the codex the rolls of these choices rarely changes.