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for an ongoing esc league. as we move along, units can be added to, but not reduced. wargear swaps ok. i have a few options, but this one seems the best.

option A:

H: battle wizard, lvl 2 = 100 (life lore or maybe fire)
C: 10 crossbows = 90
C: 10 swordsmen = 70
S: great cannon = 120
S: great cannon = 120

total = 500

list B: removes one of the cannons and adds more of either the crossbows or swords.

thoughts?

Definitely add more swords. One of the best units you have and at 500 points armies with cheap models like skaven or O&G will crush you as the cannon does not much vs infantry.

I just don't see killing power here. Cannons are wasted on rank and file due to smaller units at this size games. Bottom line is hordes are really good at these smaller point levels, and empire can do it well.

Maybe something like:
Arch Lector -Shield -Heavy Armor 108
Battle Wizard -lvl2 90
23 Halbreds -Musician 148
10 Crossbows 90
10 Free Militia 60
496

A warrior priest would be ideal but you can't have both him and a level 2 and you can't have a wizard lord at this level. I think the Halbreds will perform better then the swordsmen especially with prayers and maybe even some augments from the wizard, run them 7 wide for max attacks while still having some ranks.

That's the point I was making. :-)

I know I was writing up the list and making the post when you posted yours. =P

a lvl 2 battle wizard is 100 pts. (65 + 35)

i also dont have an arch lector model. so, with that in mind...

H: battle wizard lvl 2 = 100
C: 10 crossbows = 90
C: 10 crossbows = 90
C: 30 swordsmen, standard, = 220

= 500

still a decent amount of ranged power, and an ok core of swords to anchor the army. ill be adding detachments of halbreds to the swords next level, along with 8 more men and attaching a warrior priest and captain to them.

Looks good but I think you might have the same issue, maybe drop a crossbow unit and a couple swordsmen for something that can do some damage. I hate BS shooting, the crossbows are there mostly for a bunker for the mage except they can do something while they are not in combat, but as a stand alone unit they are sub par. Not really sure what to put in there.

Out of empire core swords are the most defensive. If you take a couple of halberd detachments it will work as your detachments will kill the most.

the plan is to grab a pair of halbred detachments at the next increment. since i have to have 3 units, at 500 pts thats kinda tough to do, and a lot of people are going to be bringing in small units like warhounds or simaler. i figure having the ability to shoot em up before hand will be beneficial. the swords are there as a finish and something to hold my middle with.

however, i assume that crossbows are better then handguns? the +6" range seems like it could be valuable

I personally prefer the -2 to the armour.

The extra range does give crossbows the edge, however you will most likely always be shooting with a -1 due to range or stand and shoot and what not so your 10 shots only 3 are hit then you need 3s against T3 or 4s against T4 so really on average you might get 1-2 wounds after saves, and you might get 2-3 rounds of shooting before the enemy reaches you. Plus factor in crossbows are move or fire, which saves you another -1 for moving and shooting but also means you might be in the wrong position to get max shots or are out of range which would require you to move losing a round of shooting. So having said that I also came up with these 2 lists, and for example while the crossbow units are getting 3 hits on average the halbreds with hatred are getting near 10 hits when run 7 wide plus the priest which gets 1 or 2 and if you get the right spells can reroll the wounds rolls leading to some 7 or 8 wounds as opposed to 1-2

Warrior Priest -Armor of Meterotic Iron -Great Weapon 120
29 Halbreds -Musician 184
16 Free Militia or 13 Swordsmen
Mortar 100
(or drop some militia and swordsmen and see if a cannon can fit.

-or-

Warrior Priest -Armor of Meterotic Iron -Great Weapon 120
29 Halbreds -Musician 184
12 Free Militia 72
Luminark 120

I know what you have said but you are really lacking some killing power. The other factor is the level 2, I love me a wizard but on average you will roll a 7 for windows either 4 and 3 or 5 and 2 or 6 and 1. So in the best case you will have 3 more dice then your opponent, however you only have 2 spells which means your opponent will have to let 1 go off and will be throwing all his dice at the the other and likely will dispel it, and that is provided you get 2 good spells. With the priest he gets 3 bound spells so who cares if you fail one and all the spells will make that Halbred unit even better plus he gives them hatred.

I like the 2nd list slightly better because the Luminark gives both the militia and halbreds a ward save (why I chose militia over swordsmen) and gives you extra dispel dice and has that extra bound spell. So you roll a 7 for windows and you can throw 2 dice at each bound spell and maybe 1 at one of the priest spells or throw dice at spells you really want to go off. At this point 2 spells are likely to go through.

So this is all just my opinion your lists are still viable at this point level just look forward and plan ahead to higher point levels.

hmmm well thats an interesting idea. i like the changes however: i can not have any rares at this level. its an escalation league list, and rares are unlocked next level i believe. (1000 pts)

however with that in mind, and with the idea that i have some crossbows i want to use, (and i think they might serve something of a purpose)

L::arch lector, hev armor, shield, = 109

C: 29 halbreds, standard, musican = 194
C: 14 crossbows = 126
C: (detachment to halbreds) 10 swords = 70

=499

next level ill give the arch lector his metoric armor, and if i can fit it in, the war alter. ill also probally increase the size of all 3 core units, (20 strong crossbows, and probally get up to 40 halbreds, with a pair of 20men sword detachments) and then start bringing in the cannons and whatnot.

Solid. I would double check that detachments count to the mandatory 3 unit limit, if they do I would just have all units be detachments to the halbreds. Since they seems to be no benefit to the prayers between a priest and AL you may be able to get away with just a priest, you'll lose 1W and 1Ld but will free up some 30-40 points. You could also drop some xbows for more swords. Keep swords 5 wide, halbreds go for 7 for max attacks against other 20mm 5 wide bus units.

even if detachments dont count towards 3 units, i could always just deploy the swords as a seperate single unit and run them beside the halbreds. wont get the buffs.... but they would serve as a redirect, or bait unit, and if possible flank into whatever the halbreds fight. for the halbreds i was thinking of going 3x10 in the ranks, simply because most armies play a 10 wide horde. this way i get the most attacks, an ok combat res, and decent hitting power.

Down the line definitely horde, but I am wondering how many other armies horde at 500 pts and still are able to field 3 units. Either way guess you can see and plan your width accordingly, also with a warrior priest:

Warrior Priest, Shield, HA = 69
29 halbreds, standard, musican = 194
10 crossbows = 90
21 swords = 147
500 on the nose

Not able to use the swords as detachment as they are over 50% of the halbreds number or you could add more hallys less swords till you get there.

warrior priest ha enchanted shield sword of might

29 halberds standard musician

5 outriders

5 outriders