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Ok. Sice disruption pods now give shrouded I have to ask to clarify.

For the purposes of combining with shrouded, jink does not count as a cover save correct?
Or does simply moving gain me a 3+ save from 13" away.

docbrown wrote:
Ok. Sice disruption pods now give shrouded I have to ask to clarify.

For the purposes of combining with shrouded, jink does not count as a cover save correct?
Or does simply moving gain me a 3+ save from 13" away.

Jink does count as a cover save. So yes, moving grants you a 3+ cover save from 13" away.

Yes, they stack.

Put those hammerheads with dpods behind an ADL and get a 2++! They become some of the hardest to kill tanks in the game!

Marshall Ragnar wrote:
Yes, they stack.

Put those hammerheads with dpods behind an ADL and get a 2++! They become some of the hardest to kill tanks in the game!

Note though that the Hammerhead's flying stand may make it difficult to gain cover from an Ægis Defense Line.

Landing gear. take it off the stand.

 IHateNids wrote:
Landing gear. take it off the stand.

Landing Gear does not give you permission to modify your model mid-game. Only an immobilised or Wrecked Skimmer has permission to remove the base.

No, but you may just not have it on the stand in the first place. Deploy it in cover, leave it there

The short flying base it comes with doesn’t even raise the model by 1/4 of an inch

Though the model is still gigantic would taking it off the stand make any difference? I don’t have a aegis to compare it with

I dont imagine so, but It dosent need to be on the stand at all because of the Landing gear

 IHateNids wrote:
No, but you may just not have it on the stand in the first place. Deploy it in cover, leave it there

So you are proposing to play without the base a model is supplied with? Tau skimmers come with a base (unless bought second-hand without a base). The vehicle is required to be on the base while in play unless wrecked/immobilised.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 IHateNids wrote:
I dont imagine so, but It dosent need to be on the stand at all because of the Landing gear

Besides, Landing Gear cannot be used in the first turn of the game.

evidence please?

For which part?
Skimmers and bases? Page 83 of the BRB.
Landing Gear not usable in the first turn? Tau codex, page 30.

At no point does pg 83 say you have to have it on a base.

I accept the tau point, but there is again nothing dictating you have to move.

 IHateNids wrote:
At no point does pg 83 say you have to have it on a base.

I accept the tau point, but there is again nothing dictating you have to move.

Page 83 specifically states you cannot remove the base for any reason other than Wrecked/Immobilised. Additionally the rules assume that models are on the base they are supplied with (page 3).

This is what its says for the landing gear on pg30 tau codex

Thought they utilse advanced anti-gravitic technology, tau vehicles are fitted with basic landing gear in case they should suffermalfuction.
In any turn that the vehicle dose not move, it may choose to no longer count as a skimmer until it moves again.
This benefit dose not apply on the first turn of the game.

This to me means you can take it off the base on any turn apart from turn 1, because it dosn't count as a skimmer anymore until you move again overwise it will still be a skimmer.

Thanks Puretide, thats what Im trying to say.

Happyjew, could you please point me to exactly which paragraph, cos im not seeing it

Every model is aassumed by the rules to be mounted on the base provided, if it has one (page 3). Skimmers have to be on their skimmer base. Page 83 says skimmers have flying bases under their hull. There's no option given there to not use it. Page 83 also explictly says that if it's immobilized or wrecked, the base is removed, and goes on to say that it's "not otherwise permitted" to be removed.

Except Landing gear. Well, from turn 2 anyway...

Page 3, bottom left MODELS AND BASE SIZES:

Page 83, SKIMMERS AND DAMAGE RESULTS, second paragraph, first sentence and last sentence.

Caps not for emphasis, but for continuity with the BRB.

Edit: Oh, and the very first paragraph under SKIMMERS AND MEASURING on page 83.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 IHateNids wrote:
Except Landing gear. Well, from turn 2 anyway...

Again, Landing Gear does not give you explicit permission to actually remove the base.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Every model is aassumed by the rules to be mounted on the base provided, if it has one (page 3). Skimmers have to be on their skimmer base. Page 83 says skimmers have flying bases under their hull. There's no option given there to not use it. Page 83 also explictly says that if it's immobilized or wrecked, the base is removed, and goes on to say that it's "not otherwise permitted" to be removed.

I thought specific codex rules trump BRB?

Thought they utilse advanced anti-gravitic technology, tau vehicles are fitted with basic landing gear in case they should suffermalfuction.
In any turn that the vehicle dose not move, it may choose to no longer count as a skimmer until it moves again.
This benefit dose not apply on the first turn of the game.

So my codex wargear allows me to choose to not be a skimmer, just not on the first turn; seems pretty clear to me. If I'm not a skimmer then I don't need the skimmer base.

C'mon we're Tau players, we need all the help we can get. ;-)

In 4th edition, Landing Gear allowed Tau vehicles to be safe if they were in difficult terrain and not moving (as in that situation Immobilised became Wrecked).
In 5th edition Landing Gear did nothing.
In 6th edition Landing Gear has some use by providing protection against Skyfire (without Interceptor).

You can always just glue the gear to the base. It is "on" the base, as it does not state that it must be on the flying stand. Either way all you really get with the gear or the short bar for the flying stand is less than a quarter of an inch, the gear will typically be about an infantry base height from the ground, not much difference.

 agnosto wrote:
So my codex wargear allows me to choose to not be a skimmer, just not on the first turn; seems pretty clear to me. If I'm not a skimmer then I don't need the skimmer base.

Not true. It's a model. Models are required to use the bases they're supplied with.

C'mon we're Tau players, we need all the help we can get. ;-)

Yeah, 5 points for a 4?+ cover save just for moving is so bad you need the 3+ for hiding behind an aegis line.
Once you resort to this it pretty much means you know your argument is bunk.

2+ can be achieved probably easier and cheaper with a simple ruins.

Please present the rule that says when it does not count as a skimmer, you have permission to remove the base that the model came with.

Not what you think a rule really means, or how it should maybe be interpreted; but an actual rule that says the above.

coredump wrote:
Please present the rule that says when it does not count as a skimmer, you have permission to remove the base that the model came with.

Not what you think a rule really means, or how it should maybe be interpreted; but an actual rule that says the above.

Bear in mind that what I said above was tongue in cheek.

It's logic. Skimmers have flight stands. Non-skimmers don't have flight stands. Since it's not a skimmer it's not eligible to use a flight stand.

In fact, the "rule" that people are bandying about doesn't state that a model "must" use the stand that is provided; what it actually says is this:

The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with.

In fact it's quite arguable that since this is not presented as a rule in and of itself, it's simply presented for informational purposes in that bases relate to such things as measuring distances, range of weapons, line of sight and so on. In fact, later in the paragraph it even takes back what was said earlier by adding:

Sometimes, a player may have models in his collection on unusually modelled bases. Somemodels aren't supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness, relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to mount themodel on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance.

Note that the bolded text above is my emphasis.

Where does that leave us? Oh yes. The age old discussion of specific versus general in which specific allowances in a codex override the rulebook. Though you could argue that it would still have to utilize the flight base, if the Tau player uses the landing gear and the vehicle is no longer a skimmer, it would make sense that you remove the flight stand to indicate this.

Either way, I don't particularly care, just playing devil's advocate in that I can actually see how this would work.

If a Skimmer is Immobilised or Wrecked, its base is removed, if possible.............(edited out other text.).........Note that it is not otherwise permitted to remove the flying base, as Skimmers cannot land in battle conditions.

...pg 83

Fragile wrote:

If a Skimmer is Immobilised or Wrecked, its base is removed, if possible.............(edited out other text.).........Note that it is not otherwise permitted to remove the flying base, as Skimmers cannot land in battle conditions.

...pg 83

Yes, but if landing gear are used on turn 2+ the vehicle is no longer a skimmer until it moves again.

You have yet to provide a rule that says you are to stop using the base.

There is no rule that says 'only skimmers can use X base"

 agnosto wrote:
In fact it's quite arguable that since this is not presented as a rule in and of itself, it's simply presented for informational purposes in that bases relate to such things as measuring distances, range of weapons, line of sight and so on. In fact, later in the paragraph it even takes back what was said earlier by adding:

Sometimes, a player may have models in his collection on unusually modelled bases. Somemodels aren't supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness, relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to mount themodel on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance.

Note that the bolded text above is my emphasis.

In that case I will not mount any of my shooting units on bases, that way they can never be assaulted since the enemy cannot get in base to base contact with them.

See how silly this is?