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To me the concept of cultists having autoguns seems silly. Altogether they seem much rarer than the humble lasgun. If cults/ renegades evolve from once loyal factions how do they make this transition.

Also, my cultist IG army is looking for vehicles. Would a medusa siege tank seem practical?

They're rarer because no one has really used them standard in 40k. Autguns were far more common in Necromunda, however. Autoguns are the baseline low cost firearm.

The idea is that autoguns represent standard, 20th-century style firearms, which are cheaper and easier to produce with lower available technology and factory facilities than lasguns.

Autoguns are rare in the game because the lasgun is far more efficient and easier to handle. Also, autoguns are more for the folks who grab whatever they can (cultists/ renegades)

rickross wrote:To me the concept of cultists having autoguns seems silly. Altogether they seem much rarer than the humble lasgun. If cults/ renegades evolve from once loyal factions how do they make this transition.

I'd say it depends on how exactly that cultist army came to be. If it was an IG unit once then yeah, sure, they'd likely have lasguns. Most cults, however, simply form out of civilians on some planet and scrounge up whatever guns they could get their hands on. Autoguns are probably somewhat cheaper and more common than lasguns (outside the military), and considering that the cult's operations are mostly locally limited, they do not suffer from the same dependence on supplies as the Imperial Guard but can simply have their allies buy or steal a couple crates of bullets from various shops or a PDF base.

"The autogun is a rapid firing automatic weapon. Auto weapons are easy to manufacture and simple to use, and are amongst the most commonly employed weapons in the Underhive. Autoguns are made in the factories of the hive city and traded down through the hive. Crude but effective versions are also made in the Underhive workshops themselves. Ammunition, spares and repair facilities are relatively easy to find throughout the Underhive, and traders always have guns and ammunition for sale."
-- GW Necromunda Rulebook

I've always imagined autoguns as being the "default" weapons for Imperial citizens. We see the LasGun as much as we do because we mostly see 40K from a military perspective.

^ Definitely; we don't see civilians with M16's walking around in their Sunday Best now, do we?

lol , the 2nd amendment. Right to Bear Arms.

When I first heard that I thought they meant all Americans had the right to really really hairy muscle laden arms.

^ lol. That's probably why this is an amendment as opposed to the actual Constitution

Autoguns are more common among the dregs of humanity then Lasguns. Hive gangs, militias, renegades, pirates, and so on. Why they fall into Cultist hands.

Cultists will have whatever guns and ammo they can loot from local PDF's or IG detachments as well as what they are provided by their "secretive backers".

Also, as mentioned, autoguns are basically cheap lasguns.

 Decio wrote:
^ Definitely; we don't see civilians with M16's walking around in their Sunday Best now, do we?

In Israel you do.

^In Switzerland you do, too.

Autoguns are not that rare. Remember, lasgun-wielding guardsmen are still regarded as the best non-astartes troops the Imperium has to offer. PDFs, police forces, private armies... all probably use ammunition based weaponry.

Cultists use a mis-mash of guns, stolen, made or found, which are represented in the game as just "firewarms".

Since it's Chaos, there should be alot of variety, with one troop with an m16 and another with a machete, but for ease of play all the weapons are just called a firearm, which has a little less range and a little less strength than a lasgun, I think

And nothing is really stopping you from having some Cultists armed with lasguns. They have the same statline after all.

 Decio wrote:
^ lol. That's probably why this is an amendment as opposed to the actual Constitution

Ammendments are part of the actual Constitution

And the Bill of Rights was added almost immediatly after it was adopted, its inclusion was actually the reason the Constitution was even passed. Votes were secured on the promise of a Bill of Rights to be added afterwards.

I've always assumed an autogun is what we would call a traditional firearm. In other words, an assault rifle. A lasgun is a military firearm, and not everyone has access to them. Granted, there are trillions of lasguns, so they wouldn't be too hand to find, but an Autogun is much easier to maintain and clean, for your average person. Finding boolits might be a problem though, since the Imperial guard doesn't use them for their service rifles.

But then again, how much simpler does it get than a lasgun? Aren't they touted as being totally indestructible and fool-proof?

I thought that stubbers were modern day crap guns, while Autoguns were of comparable quality to a lasgun, but got phased out due to ammunition shortages.

Anyways, I considered the autogun to be in the hands of cultists more often because the Dark Mechanicum doesn't have the same qualms about technological innovation their loyalist brethren harbor.

Arcsquad12 wrote:I thought that stubbers were modern day crap guns, while Autoguns were of comparable quality to a lasgun, but got phased out due to ammunition shortages.

iirc, all autoweapons are stubbers - it's just a reference to the slugs ("stubs", as in stub bullets?) they fire, with one being the general category and the other a subtype. In modern day terms, an autogun is to stubbers what an assault rifle is to projectile firearms.
DKoK Siege Regiments actually deploy with large quantities of heavy stubbers, if we were to go by GW fluff. I think a lot of IG vehicles have them mounted as well?

Interesting sidenote for another take on what the "stub" might mean: http://www.ammo-one.com/9mmS-Wcaseless.html

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
^In Switzerland you do, too.

Autoguns are not that rare. Remember, lasgun-wielding guardsmen are still regarded as the best non-astartes troops the Imperium has to offer. PDFs, police forces, private armies... all probably use ammunition based weaponry.

And Texas.

Cultist have autoguns because autoguns are cheaper. The first thing my gangs did was get everyone of value a lasgun. Guys who weren't of value got a club and a knife.
Autoguns have ammo issues that lasguns don't; but most cults don't expect to get into prolonged firefights.

-Matt

 Lynata wrote:

Arcsquad12 wrote:I thought that stubbers were modern day crap guns, while Autoguns were of comparable quality to a lasgun, but got phased out due to ammunition shortages.

iirc, all autoweapons are stubbers - it's just a reference to the slugs ("stubs", as in stub bullets?) they fire, with one being the general category and the other a subtype. In modern day terms, an autogun is to stubbers what an assault rifle is to projectile firearms.
DKoK Siege Regiments actually deploy with large quantities of heavy stubbers, if we were to go by GW fluff. I think a lot of IG vehicles have them mounted as well?

Interesting sidenote for another take on what the "stub" might mean: http://www.ammo-one.com/9mmS-Wcaseless.html

Fluffwise, I believe Heavy Stubbers are actually .50 cals. I mean straight up 20th century .50 cal. Obviously the guns arn't 38,000 years old, but they are made using 2nd millenium designs.

Grey Templar wrote:Fluffwise, I believe Heavy Stubbers are actually .50 cals. I mean straight up 20th century .50 cal. Obviously the guns arn't 38,000 years old, but they are made using 2nd millenium designs.

You mean with cased ammunition? If so, I guess this would simply be a case of some licensed source suggesting some "interpretation detail", for I've not seen a GW source discussing this.

I do recall a GW book mentioning that autoguns can have cased as well as caseless ammunition, though. I'll try to dig up the book!

Which is easily explained away as saying there are different types of autoguns.

The Munitorium Manuel says there are thousands of patterns of lasguns. On the TT there is no rule difference.

Caseless ammunition verses Cases for Autoguns just represents different patterns here too.

Why "explain away" when it is directly stated - one way or the other?

Did find an actual GW source now, though:

"The autogun is comparable to a twentieth century automatic rifle both in appearance and operation, though the introduction of caseless ammunition and plasteel components has increased the rate of fire and reliability. The autogun fires a burst of high-velocity, caseless shot made from plastic, ceramics or metal. Its strong point is that it is cheap and easy to construct, making it popular amongst low-tech frontiersmen and gretchin."
- 2E 40k Wargear

I may have misremembered, as I have the Black Library Munitorum Manual as well and perhaps had its version of the autogun come to mind rather than the original GW one.

Its possable. And GW isn't exactly consistant with some of the more minor details.

They're not - but if they never wrote it differently it's just another example of a Black Library publication going its own way.

Same thing with the Uplifting Primer, after all. :/

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Lynata wrote:

Arcsquad12 wrote:I thought that stubbers were modern day crap guns, while Autoguns were of comparable quality to a lasgun, but got phased out due to ammunition shortages.

iirc, all autoweapons are stubbers - it's just a reference to the slugs ("stubs", as in stub bullets?) they fire, with one being the general category and the other a subtype. In modern day terms, an autogun is to stubbers what an assault rifle is to projectile firearms.
DKoK Siege Regiments actually deploy with large quantities of heavy stubbers, if we were to go by GW fluff. I think a lot of IG vehicles have them mounted as well?

Interesting sidenote for another take on what the "stub" might mean: http://www.ammo-one.com/9mmS-Wcaseless.html

Fluffwise, I believe Heavy Stubbers are actually .50 cals. I mean straight up 20th century .50 cal. Obviously the guns arn't 38,000 years old, but they are made using 2nd millenium designs.

Heavy Stubbers are actually not that much different than the german MG42.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_42

 Mannahnin wrote:
The idea is that autoguns represent standard, 20th-century style firearms

Technically, autoguns are better, in general, than modern firearms. Stub weapons are more like modern firearms.

How do orks make ammunition? Certainly they don't loot every bullet. They have plenty of metal at their disposal, but the mechanical precision required to make ammunition that doesn't blow up the gun or misfire seems like it would be hard for orks.

You underestimate the capabilities of an OCD MekBoy.

 Samus_aran115 wrote:
How do orks make ammunition? Certainly they don't loot every bullet. They have plenty of metal at their disposal, but the mechanical precision required to make ammunition that doesn't blow up the gun or misfire seems like it would be hard for orks.

They also conquer imperial forgeworlds and have slaves manufacture war material for them. I believe some meks also have factories of sorts where gretchin and snotlings produce various things correct?