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So I play against my friend who brings SWs all the time. He loves his long fangs. Coming in at 25 points a piece each long fang, has himself a nice group of missile launchers, along with the stats of a marine (BS4, T4, 1W, 3+ save). Missiles are great at instant killing any toughness 4 multiwound targets and killing light to medium armored vehicles, plus in bulk, a lucky pen can shoot some stupid necron flyers out the sky. I have seen these missile launchers destroy the side armor of my battle wagons time and time again. "I wish I had some reliable, ap 3, high strength shooting," I says to myself. Then I thought about how the new artillery rules and how tough they make ork artillery, and how cheap kannons are for orks. 3x 3 Kannons cost, 180 points, so comparing to SW long fangs, we get a missile shot for every 20 points, at 1 less BS than the long fangs, and 12 less inches, but we gain a toughness of seven gun and 1 extra wound, and for 9 more points you can reroll 9 shots per game, helping to blast some planes out of the sky. This seems like a great thing for orks, as we desperately need semi-reliable high strength shooting. I feel like paired with some deffguns from lootas and a mass of shoota boyz, Orks could have some serious firing power. Add in 2 dakka jets and you get the following, 18 BS3, str 6 shots per turn (36 on waaagh), 20 lootas = 20-60 str 7 BS2 str 7 shots per turn, and 9 str 8 BS 3 shots per turn for about 740 points. Im not sure how that stands up to other armies, but I definitely like how cheap kannons are, and add in a horde army at 2k points, you could easily double its force org and bring 18 kannons for 360 points. I was wondering how this measured up to other armies and if a horde of shoota boyz paired with lootas, kannons, and maybe some dakka jets can out shoot other armies at 2k points.

Also I would think firing 18 small blast would be fun and very orky.

That's pretty much what everyone is thinking right now, shooty orks are the new super secret tech

I'd skip out on the ammo runts though, you get one reroll per ammo runt, so that's 27 points for nine rerolls. If you get two lootaz for those points, those will cause more damage than your rerolls.

In terms of Big Gun hierarchy, from least useful to most useful, I find it to be Zzap Guns, Kannons, and then Lobbas. Kannons are great and all, but they don't have the range to be as useful as they should be. Lobbas on the other hand, while being Str5 and Small Blast, perhaps, are able to blind fire up to 48". For Orks, getting to shoot anything and not having to risk being shot back is a pretty great advantage, is what I will say about that. And the constant barrage of Lobba fire will help soften up some of the units that your Shoota Boyz will be charging and fire madly into. Meanwhile, Dakkajets and Burna Bommas are super awesome Ork Bomma variants. I personally haven't used the Blitza Bomma that much, but I would still suggest giving it a go if you expect heavy armor. 7+2d6 for penetrating rolls is, on average, a 14, so that's not half bad.

Lootas are all Orks need as anti-air. And anti-infantry. And anti-light. And anti-everything, really. :I You take one, maybe two units if you're feeling frisky, of fifteen Lootas, and. . .your friend's Long Fangs will just disintegrate. Put 'em in a ruin, always claim a 4+ cover, and have a little laugh to yourself as anything within 48" becomes nervous of the ever-vigilant Loota fire. Yes, you'll roll 1-2 for the shots fired sometime, maybe even entire games. And yes, you are still rolling 5+ to hit, or 6+ against Flyers. But as with all things Ork, when it works. . .oh boy does it work. And that's the trade off we resign to when we play one of the few armies that's actually purposefully entertaining to play.

I'd argue that T7 models for 3pts a piece don't give a damn about getting shot. Besides, kannons can also blast stuff at 36" (which is most of the table if deployed aggressively), as well as take down vehicles, which lobbas can't.

The real problem with bitz bommer can be shown by napkin math: If your bommers don't die, never scatters, and always rolls box cars for penetration, three of them kill exactly two rhinos/chimeras/wave serpents/younameit over the course of a game. Two vehicles which cost less than a single one of your bommers. If they were AP1, they might be viable, but as it is... no way.

To be fair, lootaz aren't exactly good at shooting MEQ. Unless there are no more vehicles around, you shouldn't aim them at the long fangs.

On the subject of lobbas, orks murder infantry already, and can put out an obscene amount of S5 shots. I don't see why you would really need more of them, especially at the expense of your heavy slots. Kannons on the other hand, do fill an important role. They're tankbustas that dont tard out the moment a sentinel rounds the corner. Plus they're T 7, pretty friggin accurate, even moreso than longfangs with ammo runts, and are dirt cheap. You get 3 for less than an iG HWS by a good 25pts or so, and you have similar LD with runtherder, better accuracy, and better durability. Even with a 36" range, I would imagine they're a far more flexible unit than a battery of lobbas.

I found a bunch of small toy cannons going through my old army toys the other day, and I know I can't wait to run them as kannons for my orks. I think it'll be a blast

However I have to ask, when you guys say you're deploying them aggressively are we talking here? Like right up against my deployment line aggressive, or just fairly close to the enemy to make it easier to get in line? If somebody has a link to a batrep with pics that shows it that would work too.

1. Kannons behind a Defense Line with a Quad Gun.
2. Lootas with 3 36" range Big Shoota Meks. Most people beg off the Meks to keep more Deffgunz around, but the simple fact that they are guaranteed 3 shots each every round of shooting for a spread of 21, 33, and 45 shots versus 15, 30, and 45 softens rolling a 1 on the D3 against models with Toughness (and don't forget that half of those Big Shoota wounds will be Precision Shots). As for AV, what will 15 Deffgunz take out that much more reliably than 12?

I mostly like the 15 to buy 3 more bodies before I have to take a leadership test... My loota's biggest problem is running off the table!

 sudojoe wrote:
I mostly like the 15 to buy 3 more bodies before I have to take a leadership test... My loota's biggest problem is running off the table!

You still have a full unit of 15 Lootas, 12 with Deffgunz plus 3 Meks with Big Shootas.

woops, misunderstood the question at hand, ignore my comment then.

Btw, do mek's count as characters? I'm just thinking if they get precision shots. The big mek's definately a ch from the brb in the back. It says mekboy and I have no idea what that is. Is it talking about the loota mek upgrade? free precision shots? I like it maybe?

So far this thread is pretty sharp.

Agreed that both Kannons and Meks with Big Shootas in Lootas are awesome and should always be taken.

Kannons in a defense line with a gun and extra crew (need S8 generally, t7 with a cover save is great, and BS3 for the gun) - 150 to 180 points - absolutely golden

Lootas with Meks I am less convinced over - sure they are characters, sure they stabalise the shot numbers, but it depends whether you are using them as

- anti flier, (best option is probably 10 lootas - can go to ground as not fearless)
- anti vehicle (best option is probably 15 lootas - need S7 on everything)
- anti infantry (best option for lootas may be 12 lootas and 3 big shootas, but a better option may be 27 shootaboys and 3 big shootas)

Why would you want lootas to go to ground?
And against infantry the 2+ to wound goes much further than the extra shots+ 4+ to wound IMO

Giving a Mek a Big Shoota is pretty much a waste IMO. Practically everything in our codex can be given Big Shootas. If you want more Big Shootas there are lots of places you can put them. The only reason I can see that you'd want a Mekboy would be because you're putting him in a vehicle and you want the repair rolls, or you want the Kustom Mega Blasta. Otherwise I'd keep the Deffgun.

Also - yes you wouldn't want your Lootas to go to ground, but with an Aegis Defense Line they can go to ground for a 2+ save, and still snap-fire next turn, which is only half as bad as their existing BS.

Personally I don't think going to ground in this way is really smart unless you think the entire Loota squad is going to be wiped out. You're better off taking a few casualties and firing at full BS with the remainder of the squad next turn.

Why would you want a gun that has a higher chance of killing yourself than killing your target?

Going to ground against fliers is pretty viable though, you're snap-firing anyways.

Mek's in units of Lootas actually work REALLY well if you toss the Lootas into a wagon - since the Mek's can keep the Wagon up and running.

Same combo naturally works with Burnaboyz in a wagon.

If you were to make a 1850 point list of shooty orks, what would you add to a list like this, feel free to take anything else out too. How well do you think a biker boss and 5 nob bikers compliments a foot list of shooting orks?

HQ:
Big Mekk KFF

Troops:
3x 25 shoota boyz, nob pk, bp

Elite:
10x lootas
10x lootas

Heavy Support:
3x 3 kannons, ammo runts

Lootas in a wagon is very risky. st4 hits will make a mess of them when the wagon goes up in flames.

ammo runts, extra crew and runtherd are all good for big guns. Ammo runts are usually forgotten.

I often play with lobbas. The issue is they really struggle to kill. Hitting models 48'' away and you can not see, also pinning is real swell, it is just a bit too unlikely they'll do damage.

TableTopJosh wrote:
If you were to make a 1850 point list of shooty orks, what would you add to a list like this, feel free to take anything else out too. How well do you think a biker boss and 5 nob bikers compliments a foot list of shooting orks?

HQ:
Big Mekk KFF

Troops:
3x 25 shoota boyz, nob pk, bp

Elite:
10x lootas
10x lootas

Heavy Support:
3x 3 kannons, ammo runts

An Ageis Defense Line with a Quad Gun for the extra Kannon crew to man, and a Shokk Attack Gun Mek.

Just started my Okr army and I'm probably going to run 3 Kannons this weekend for the first time. Tired of getting shot up by Leman Russ's from the IG player I'm usually pitted against and I hope the kannons will take out some of the tanks and thin the numbers of the IG. 60 points in a 1k list isn't a bad point investment when building a really shooty list.

Can someone explain how the Waagh gives you double attacks? I can't seem to find a definitive answer as to what all the Waagh special rule does for me in 6th.

Wingeds wrote:
Just started my Okr army and I'm probably going to run 3 Kannons this weekend for the first time. Tired of getting shot up by Leman Russ's from the IG player I'm usually pitted against and I hope the kannons will take out some of the tanks and thin the numbers of the IG. 60 points in a 1k list isn't a bad point investment when building a really shooty list.

Can someone explain how the Waagh gives you double attacks? I can't seem to find a definitive answer as to what all the Waagh special rule does for me in 6th.

It gives double attacks only for the ork fliers as they have a special rule that doubles the number of shots they shoot that turn. Nothing else gets double attacks. Get to reroll charge distance for infantry though it pales in this form vs older version.

One unit of lobbas seems a useful option in an all-comers list - put them safe out of sight behind a wall or building or hill, then drop shots onto your opponent's backline all game.

But I'd probably go for kannon for any additional artillery units - you need those high strength shots,

Just started my Okr army and I'm probably going to run 3 Kannons this weekend for the first time. Tired of getting shot up by Leman Russ's from the IG player I'm usually pitted against and I hope the kannons will take out some of the tanks and thin the numbers of the IG. 60 points in a 1k list isn't a bad point investment when building a really shooty list.

To be honest, you are going to have a hard time dealing with the Leman Russ Battle tank with 6 kannons. Str 8 is nice, but 6 shots, only averaging 3 hits a turn, glancing on front armor with 6's and the fact that it out ranges kannons makes it tough to crack. It sucks that your just starting to play and Orks and are up against LRBTs already, orks have a tough time with IG. Getting turn one and night fighting can really help against IG, and maybe bringing a small unit of nob bikers in hopes they survive long enough for your warboss to get up close and crush things with his power claw. Can anyone else offer any help/ suggesting when starring down some puny humans with big guns?

Since you've just started your ork army, there's a 99.9% chance you've got some deff koptas from the AoBR box. Take those and outflank them or just scout them forward turn one. TL rokkits, even on koptas will make IG break a sweat, especially if you can get them in behind his tanks (which with a 24" scout move and another 12" move shouldn't be too hard) Also keep in mind they've got the +5 jink save as long as you keep them moving, and T5 with 2 wounds as well. He'll have to divert a good chunk of shooting to take them out, which will buy your lootas, kannons, boyz, and other units time to cross the board and take his army out.

I agree though that kannons won't cut it against the leman russes unfortunately. However, they'll do a great job at cracking his chimeras and other low AV vehicles. Plus, they always have the blast template to use as well for when you finally crack his metal boxes open.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
24" scout move

Page 41 Scout SR restricts the move, I mean, 'redeployment' to 12", but 24" of movement plus 24" range is still pretty threatening.

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
24" scout move

Page 41 Scout SR restricts the move, I mean, 'redeployment' to 12", but 24" of movement plus 24" range is still pretty threatening.

Thanks for the heads up, I was still under the impression that they could move and do their flatout in the scout "redeployment phase".

Still, that puts them at the edge of your enemy's deployment turn 1, easily within side armor of something you really want dead. Plus, that will also help you get a shot at that artillery piece hidden behind a building or the company command chimera that's trying to hide from your lootas. Still mighty useful.

How does this list of shooty orks look? I feel it brings a good amount of boom boom. 200 shoota boy shots, 1 ap 2 large blast, 20-60 str 7 loota shots, 9 str 8 kannon shots, 18 (36 on waaggh) str 6 pinning shots, and 4 twin linker rokkits from outflanking koptas. Let me know what you guys think, thanks. Oh and DAKAKAKAKAKKAKAKAKAKAAAA! Also,

HQ:
Big Mekk KFF, BP- 90
Big Mekk SAG, Cybork, BP, ammo runt- 113

Troops:
4x 25 shoota boyz, 3 Nob, PK, BP

Elite:
10x lootas- 150
10x lootas-150
aegis defense line- 50
Heavy Support:
3x 3 Kannons- 180
3x 3 ammo runts-27

Fast Attack:
2x dakkajet- 240
4x rokkit koptas- 180

Total: 1850 shooty orks

 Kharrak wrote:
Mek's in units of Lootas actually work REALLY well if you toss the Lootas into a wagon - since the Mek's can keep the Wagon up and running.

Same combo naturally works with Burnaboyz in a wagon.

I still have only lost three battlewagons so far due to dropping down to 0 hull points over the course of multiple turns. More than ten times as many battlewagons have either been blown up by high strength, low AP weapons (both close combat and ranged), or taken from 4 to 0 hull points in a single turn by scatter lasers, psycannons, autocannons or a ton of S4 attacks hitting rear armor.

So I really don't see a point in reducing the firepower of lootaz in order to repair one out of ten battlewagons I field. For burnaz, you actually get the option of doing something at range, so I can see meks being useful there.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Since you've just started your ork army, there's a 99.9% chance you've got some deff koptas from the AoBR box. Take those and outflank them or just scout them forward turn one. TL rokkits, even on koptas will make IG break a sweat, especially if you can get them in behind his tanks (which with a 24" scout move and another 12" move shouldn't be too hard) Also keep in mind they've got the +5 jink save as long as you keep them moving, and T5 with 2 wounds as well. He'll have to divert a good chunk of shooting to take them out, which will buy your lootas, kannons, boyz, and other units time to cross the board and take his army out.

I agree though that kannons won't cut it against the leman russes unfortunately. However, they'll do a great job at cracking his chimeras and other low AV vehicles. Plus, they always have the blast template to use as well for when you finally crack his metal boxes open.

I actually don't have Deffkoptas lol. I'll look into picking a few up. I had been considering using a Nob biker squad to counter a Leman Russ though.

Edit: Is it always preferred with orks to spread your mob out into max unit cohesion? Blast templates seem to be taking a toll on me and I was wondering if there was ever a time you wouldn't spread the mobs out.

TableTopJosh wrote:
How does this list of shooty orks look? I feel it brings a good amount of boom boom. 200 shoota boy shots, 1 ap 2 large blast, 20-60 str 7 loota shots, 9 str 8 kannon shots, 18 (36 on waaggh) str 6 pinning shots, and 4 twin linker rokkits from outflanking koptas. Let me know what you guys think, thanks. Oh and DAKAKAKAKAKKAKAKAKAKAAAA! Also,

HQ:
Big Mekk KFF, BP- 90
Big Mekk SAG, Cybork, BP, ammo runt- 113

Troops:
4x 25 shoota boyz, 3 Nob, PK, BP

Elite:
10x lootas- 150
10x lootas-150
aegis defense line- 50
Heavy Support:
3x 3 Kannons- 180
3x 3 ammo runts-27

Fast Attack:
2x dakkajet- 240
4x rokkit koptas- 180

Total: 1850 shooty orks

That looks like a pretty solid Ork list to me. Definitely shooty