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I'm not really a fan of tailoring a list for an opponent, however I am playing against a guy at our clubs Eldar list this weekend (he's got a pretty solid but flexible unbeaten tournament list) and I am relatively inexperienced versus Eldar.
So keen to know which of the following are the better of the options I have. Would welcome recommendations. Interested to know if there are any general Eldar weaknesses I can exploit for example. Things I might be missing. He will field Eldrad, Walkers and a few tanks. The rest he'll swap amongst bikes, Banshees etc...

So which is better against Eldar, if at all, and what would you change?

No. 1
BA

HQ
Epistolary - Terminator armour

Elites 
Sanguinary Guard - Power fist, Plasma pistol

Troops 
Assault squad (5) - Power fist
Assault squad (5) - Power fist
Tactical squad (10) - Plasma gun, ML
Tactical squad (10) - Plasma gun, ML

Transport
Land Raider Crusader - MM
Land Raider - MM

Heavy sup
Vindicator
Vindicator

Idea here is that I have some pretty resilient armour, along with a decent number of troops and hardy hand to hand guys. A fan of doubling up, hence the two Land Raiders (a recurring theme in my lists), these and the Sang guard will bring the fight to him quickly. But are LR too expensive at 1,750? I could field a Chaplin, Scouts, Terminators, Dreadnoughts, Razorbacks or a Predator instead of the above if you'd swap things in.

The alternatives, no. 2

GK

HQ
Librarian
Crowe

Troops
Purifier Squad - (5) - Hammer, Incinerator, Psycannon, Psybolt ammo
Purifier Squad - (5) - Hammer, Incinerator, Psycannon, Psybolt ammo
Purifier Squad - (5) - Hammer, Incinerator, Psycannon, Psybolt ammo
Terminators - (5) - Hammer, Psycannon
Terminators - (5) - Hammer, Psycannon

Heavy support
Land Raider Crusader - Psybolt Ammo
Land Raider - Psybolt Ammo

Terminators in the LR's to get straight into combat, hence no Psybolt ammo. Two sets of Terminators preferred to more Purifiers as they should hopefully last longer in CC. I could swap in more Purifiers of course, Dreadnoughts and evens Stormravems.

And finally... Good old Deathwing.

DA

HQ
Belial
Librarian - Terminator armour

Troops
Assault Terminator squad - Cyclone ML
Assault Terminator squad - Cyclone ML
Terminator squad - Assault cannon, 2 Chainfists
Terminator squad - Assault cannon, 2 Chainfists
Terminator squad - Assault cannon, 2 Chainfists

Heavy Sup
Land Raider Crusader

Belial would roll out of the Land Raider here, with an Assault squad, then as much as possible of the rest would deep strike. My worry there is that the LR won't last turn one as a result. Lib with the other Assault squad.

What do you think, are these lists ok, versus Eldar, which would you take? Would you tailor these further, swap things and make wholesale changes?

Thanks,

NW4NW



P.S. After going through all the advice below, I am going to go with this. Unless anyone hugely disagrees?


HQ
Belial - LC

Elites
Ven Dread - Twin-linked Autocannon, ML
Ven Dread - Twin-linked Autocannon, ML
Scout squad - Missile launcher

Troops
Assault Terminator squad - Cyclone ML, 3xTH/SS 2xLC
Assault Terminator squad - Cyclone ML, 3xTH/SS 2xLC
Tactical squad - Plasma gun, ML
Tactical squad - Plasma gun, ML

Fast Attack
Land speeder Typhoon
Land speeder Typhoon
Land speeder Typhoon

Heavy Support
Predator - Lascannon sponsons

I've got a decent amount of missiles (15), Autocannon shots (6), some deep striking Terminators, and a decent number of bodies. The Ven dreads will be a target but could be a long way back and pretty robust with re-rolls. Apart from them the Predator stands out a bit. I might swap it for a Devastator squad to give a less obvious target unless you would recommend something else. Perhaps losing the sponsons to buy another Predator?

Thanks again,

NW4NW

Well, one thing a well tailored Eldar player's list can do is cause lots of wounds, be it though Scatter Laser War Walkers (and other random s6 spam), Dire Avengers Bladestorming, Guide and Doom powers from the Farseers, etc, coupled with extreme speed makes me think that any army without many troops on the board or an entirely footslogging list (such as the dark angels Terminator list, which I have played against with my Eldar and Destroyed as I isolated 1 squad a turn and spammed wounds on him to fail) might not do so well.

The Blood Angels might do ok, depends if he often brings lots of Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents, Bright Lances on Wraithlords, or Fire Prisms to link up together and bring down larger AV targets with more reliability. Other than those options (or the rare Wraithguard), there's not many options Eldar have for av 14, so that list may do OK with the 4 heavy tanks. Keep in mind outflanking shenanigans with the War Walkers that can catch side/rear armor on those Vindicators and pop them with S6 spam.

Not sure on the Grey Knights, as I haven't played as much against them. The purifiers will probably be isolated first if possible with anti-infantry as the Land Raiders are obviously 1st turn targets for anti-tank. As you know Land Raiders are a gamble; if he's a competitive Eldar Player he's bound to have 2 squads of Fire Dragons that will suicide charge the two Land Raiders to try to stop you before you get much of a chance to respond.

So, those are your main threats, I'd say ... 30 Shot Guide/Doomed Bladestorming Dire Avengers, Fire Prisms, Fire Dragons, S4 shot s6 Scatterlaser Spam. There are some variations, but most Eldar Lists run these.

The first thing to remember when dealing with Eldar, are things like Vindicators, and Melta Guns lose a lot of their utlity. The ubiquitous Troop Transport that most Eldar Players will be using has an energy field rule which reduces s9 and 10 to 8, and only ever allows a single dice to be rolled against it. This means that the points you spend will often be wasted, and of course the Avatar is immune to meltas!

Also your GK army would get stomped by a good Eldar player. Psycannon based GKs are going to have trouble. As evildrspock noted scatter lasers are Eldar's go to weapon. 36 inch range and the incredible speed naturally found in Wave Serpents means that they'll be able to kite you from 36 inches while they whittle you down with Scatter Laser fire. Land Raiders are also usually not a good idea against Eldar as well because of Fire Dragons. Any Eldar army worth playing is going to have 2-3 squads of Fire Dragons and those combined with a Wave Serpent's natural speed, will turn Land Raiders into paste leaving you footslogging.

So here are the Eldar Weaknesses. Because Bright Lances are way over priced, really only firedragons are a good answer to 2+ saves. This means that generally terminators will give an Eldar player trouble because once his dragons are gone he'll have trouble killing them. Make sure that you make use of Deep Strike to hit his rear armor, and try to kill off his transports with Psycannon fire. Limiting Eldar Speed is the best way to catch and kill them.

Also focus on long range solutions. dual (psybolt) auto cannon dreads are a real pain since they have solid range and can seriously mess up Wave Serpents. Storm Ravens are also scary due to their awesome speed, solid armor, and Eldar's general lack of anti air. Having units as fast as Eldar really gives them a hard time! Interceptors are also a good choice sine they have the speed to get their psycannons in range so can't be kited.

For generic Space Marines focus on missile launchers. Missile Launchers are great against pretty much everything Eldar can bring- from wraithlords to wave serpents. Double Typhoon Missile Tank Hunting Termie squads from Black Templar are going to cause eldar a lot of grief- especially if you can protect them from suicide fire dragon squads, Same with Land Speeder Typhoons. Any Army that has a lot of different multi shot missile options is going to give Eldar a really hard time. Eldar don't have much weaponry that can outrange missile launchers.

Do not fall into the trap of focusing on Close Combat. Eldar will either beat you there with the Avatar and Harlequin death star, or they will be able to effortlessly run away. Remember that Eldar which are not Harlequins are pretty terrible in close combat, and your shooting units should be able to beat most Eldar units in close combat with very few exceptions- watch out for Autarch's with WJG hitting fire support units, but you get the idea. So just focus on bringing the tools to slow him down- Missiles and Auto Cannons and remember that once he can't run you can catch him and pretty much whatever will beat him in close combat- Dire Avengers get owned in cc.

Actually spamming Missiles and Auto cannons and other long range high strenght weapons is generally going to be the most competitive you can do against most armies- not just Eldar. so do it!

Just remember, If you let Eldar kite you, or zip behind your Aegis Defense line, you will be at a significant disadvantage, so focus on limiting mobility and you should do great!

 akaean wrote:
Just remember, If you let Eldar kite you, or zip behind your Aegis Defense line, you will be at a significant disadvantage, so focus on limiting mobility and you should do great!

Everything he posted was very insightful, but this is the main key here. By knocking out their mobility, armies like Eldar/DE are already half done.

That's great feedback, thank you all.

Is this remotely close to the mark?

HQ
Belial - LC

Elites
Ven Dread - Twin-linked Autocannon, ML
Ven Dread - Twin-linked Autocannon, ML
Scout squad - Missile launcher

Troops
Assault Terminator squad - Cyclone ML, 3xTH/SS 2xLC
Assault Terminator squad - Cyclone ML, 3xTH/SS 2xLC
Tactical squad - Plasma gun, ML
Tactical squad - Plasma gun, ML

Fast Attack 
Land speeder Typhoon
Land speeder Typhoon
Land speeder Typhoon

Heavy Support
Predator - Lascannon sponsons

I've got a decent amount of missiles (15), Autocannon shots (6), some deep striking Terminators, and a decent number of bodies. The Ven dreads will be a target but could be a long way back and pretty robust with re-rolls. Apart from them the Predator stands out a bit. I might swap it for a Devastator squad to give a less obvious target unless you would recommend something else. Perhaps losing the sponsons to buy another Predator?

Thanks again,

NW4NW

I would recommend fitting in a least 1 Storm Talon, if you have any plans of collecting them - the more flyers in your army, the more difficulty the eldar will have (plus any of their upgraded weapons will hurt eldar vehicles pretty good). At least, I see them being quite more effective against Eldar, and in general, than Land Speeders now. But Land Speeders have the advantage of being cheaper ...

I will note a few things eldar struggle with before suggestions:

1: Fliers. few TL high strength weapons, few high strength weapons in general outside melta, eldar rely on S6 war walkers to bring down fliers. Bring stormravens if you can since 6s to hit, 6s to glance means 108 scatter lasers shots to down a single stormraven. Admittedly eldar can do that with guide and 3x3 scatter walkers, but you can also evade and use PotMS to still do good damage
2: eldar lack reliable AT shooting at range. Brightlances are vastly overcosted (30+ pts) and are on only a very small number of units. Missiles are also only on a few units. Eldar rely on war walkers for most AT duty on AV11. Land raiders are very useful here, but only at range since fire dragons are 16 pt models with meltas and eldar players almost always run them. Standard land raiders with multimeltas are quite effective at poking eldar armies apart at range. Kill the transports and he has very little AT beyond slow wraithlords or the occasional missile or singing spear.

3: be careful of melee. While banshees and scorpions got nerfed yet again this editon (they werent great in 5th) Harlequins got huge buffs. They have stealth and shrouding, giving them 2+ saves if they are in any terrain. Make sure to focus fire whenever possible. killing 3 guys with a squad shooting is well worth it. In melee they are rending I6 WS5 S4 4A on the charge with hit and run making harlequns on par or better than the best melee GK can put out. They also have a psyker in the shadowseer meaning they get a 5+ dtw(oh the irony of that naming) or 4+ if they have a farseer with them. Harlequins also have 5+ inv saves in melee which is still very survivable with fortune. Flamers are you friend here since it negates their 2+ cover, wounds on 2+, and can ID a farseer so he will not take the wounds.


Overall i think GK stand the best chance vs eldar. Being able to negate Doom is a huge advantage and regular farseers are only mastery 1, meaning they match you. They also have access to a lot of S5+ which rips eldar's T3 apart.

3 Armies you could face:

Eldar jetbikes: get terminators in melee with the seer council ASAP. they have no power weapons and take forever to kill terminators. You wont be incredibly effective either, but terminators should win out over time. They are also incredibly expensive. Shoot down the guardian jetbike and any supporting vehicles as they are pretty flimsy but can get very annoying.

Eldar shooting army(my 5th army) : shoot down fire dragon transports asap to knock out his ability to deal with LRs. then concentrate on dealing with either the war walkers or killing the fire dragons outright.

eladar melee (best 6th list): rare to see since harlequins are so expensive, but 20 harlequins in 2 squads with 2 farseers is incredibly difficult for any army to deal with. Simply try to keep away as you wont do much damage to the harlequin units. Shoot down anything besides the harlequins and let them charge around the board all game. If you have to engage them, make focus fire when you can and force them out of cover as they just have a 4+ cover save otherwise.

Valeria (personal preference, hyperstone maze is amazing vs yriel, eldrad, or shadowseers)
Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor, Psyocculum, servo skull (with 10 man termies in stormraven= deathstar anhialator)

5 terminators, 2 halberds, hammer psycannon 225
5 terminators, 2 halberds, hammer psycannon 225
10 terminators 5 halberds 1 hammer 2x psycannons psybolt 470
stormraven 205

LR multimelta 265
LR multimelta 265

I verse Eldar allot and i find Deep striking terminators/paladins, purifiers in storm ravens, psyrifle men and dreadknights in pairs do very well.
Try not to rely on psychic powers though as Eldrad will make you roll them on 3D6. So try and avoid taking Librarians and psychic inquisitors as they will be shut down.
So for HQ's i like to run Draigo with some paladins or Mordak can be very effective if used correctly.
Stick to this and you will have a competitive list and heaps of fun.

Want to beat Eldar huh?

Eldar are an older army with lots of tricks, don't let them trick you though into thinking they very easy to take out

In the hands of a seasoned player, Eldar are the best race in 40k. Iv played Eldar for many years and one of the biggest things I have learned to take advantage of is the lack of knowledge my opponent knows about Eldar and their tricks.

Yes the guys have already mentioned a few ways to hurt us, but 6th edition makes Eldar even stronger. Screw the flyers, everyone runs put down a aegis defense w/ a quad gun now a days and with Eldar a few fire dragons manning the thing w/ any Exarch (BS5) that ignores your jink save when you come off the board edge. Say goodbye even before you can move from the board edge.

With misfortune and many other psychic powers its easier to make sure you die from all my scatter lasers from my 9 war walkers.

Now with allies Space Wolfs and Eldar are an amazing combination say psychic shut down to any army trying to roll to cast it initially 3d6 and letting me roll a 4+ to nullify it, and even those occasional long fangs on quad gun split firing to take down those flyers and knocking off hull points off av 14.

With Dark Eldar, you can have Vect, Eldrad and 10 Harlies run together with a avatar nearby to be the ultimate fortuned dark harlistar, add a void raven bomber in with some necrotoxin and implosion missles on that thing and you have a real flyer/bomber

The way to beat a good Eldar player is to play them at their own game. Their's 5 ways you can go about doing this:
1. Play to the objectives - Sitting on the objective with a strong unit will always force an Eldar player to have to come to you, and with Wave Serpents and Falcons taking a nose dive this edition they will mostly be coming on foot or on jetbikes. If it is kill points go for the easy ones, fire dragons, guardian jetbikes, (Non-Wave Serpent) skimmers ect.
2. Look for units that are split apart from the rest of the force especially the fast moving ones (Guardians, Guardian jetbikes, Warp Spiders, Skimmers, Seer Councils)
3. Always keep in mind where the farseer/eldrad is, if you see the opportunity to take them out do it! No fortune/doom and Runes of Warding gives you a huge advantage especially if you have psykers yourself
4. Avatar are extremely underrated in this edition, the big guy should be one of your main priorities because of his ability to boost an Eldar's forces ability tenfold with fearless (20 fearless guardians w/ warlock fortuned are a pain in the ass to take out in shooting or close combat)
5. Lastly since Eldar doesn't bring alot of av 13 or 14 busters to the field, make sure you take out those before you bring that armour close

Hoped that helped alittle

I find purifiers with 4 incinerators or purgators with the same quite easy to mop up guardians/dire avengers in cover.

Well, I played mech Eldar in the 5th ed and struggled vs. GK. Actually, I came on top in all these games but I guess only because I was the more experienced player.
A Purifier army with psycannons, Psfleman Dreads, and Dreadknights can be a pain for Eldar. Eldar have not very much to take out Dreads at range and to deal with Dreadknights in cc. Once I charged a DK with a Seer Council. I never did it again since the DK refused to die.