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Given that I'm seeing more Flyers, are we going to see more Anti-Aircraft Artillery (AAA).

Options are a bit strangled, I can take Guard allies for access to Hydra's, but it would be nice to have another SM option rather than just the Rifle Dread as an Elite option.

Anyone remember the old Epic 40k Hunter???



The old Rotary SAM launcher, it would be a nice addition to the SM HEAVY INVENTORY.

Anyone remember any other AAA units from EPIC 40k

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/IMPERIAL_ARMOUR_AERONAUTICA.html

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Tanks/WHIRLWIND-HYPERIOS-COMPLETE-KIT.html

I'd be happy with anything that gives us Skyfire.

For Sisters of Battle, I still say the Exorcist's barrage of guided Krak missiles should be able to lock on to a flier.

I don't want Imperial Armour annexes for my core range. I would like to see it in the Official Codex 6th Edition Space Marines, with proper units with SKYFIRE which I can use in all tournaments. Especially as 6th has alot of Fliers now, which are Core range and not the expanded Forge World Range.

 AlexHolker wrote:
For Sisters of Battle, I still say the Exorcist's barrage of guided Krak missiles should be able to lock on to a flier.

Agreed.

 Sigvatr wrote:
I'd be happy with anything that gives us Skyfire.

QFT!!

 mwnciboo wrote:
I don't want Imperial Armour annexes for my core range. I would like to see it in the Official Codex 6th Edition Space Marines, with proper units with SKYFIRE which I can use in all tournaments. Especially as 6th has alot of Fliers now, which are Core range and not the expanded Forge World Range.

Every SM missile launcher will get the option to use Flak missiles with their 6th edition Codex. If you pop to the back of your BRB you'll notice the flak entry under the missile launcher. So don't fret, you will get your skyfire. If you impatient to wait for the SM update just ally the DA when they get their new book.

And for everyone else waiting for new codexes?

Twinlinked weapons look good, and psychic re-rolls help. But, hardly anyone has AAA yet.

Didn't Hunter Killer missiles not get Skyfire?
Why not?

It's almost got bad enough to make me buy the relevant IA and Apoc books, if only I knew which to get.

Edit: I know it's "codices", but meh.

Anything twinlinked works well but twin-linked lascannons are especially awesome. (see 4 lascannon devastators with librarian casting prescience)

@Skinnereal print out the 6th edition forgeworld update hyperios is there.

I hope marines dont get skyfire on normal launchers . maybe on whirlwinds , but not on devastators or tacticals or land speeders . I like the way it is right now , feels more realistic. marines have to use cover and their power armor to surive flyer attacks , just like they do in the fluff.

Makumba wrote:
I hope marines dont get skyfire on normal launchers . maybe on whirlwinds , but not on devastators or tacticals or land speeders . I like the way it is right now , feels more realistic. marines have to use cover and their power armor to survive flyer attacks , just like they do in the fluff.

Well as I stated earlier, under the infantry weapon entry in Space Marines section in the back, the Missile Launcher has a Frag, Krak, and Flak profile. So it is pretty easy to foresee that every Tac squad will be rocking AA weapons.

And I am going to assume that CSM Havocs will have access to the Flak missile as well on their launchers.

 NuclearMessiah wrote:

Makumba wrote:
I hope marines dont get skyfire on normal launchers . maybe on whirlwinds , but not on devastators or tacticals or land speeders . I like the way it is right now , feels more realistic. marines have to use cover and their power armor to survive flyer attacks , just like they do in the fluff.

Well as I stated earlier, under the infantry weapon entry in Space Marines section in the back, the Missile Launcher has a Frag, Krak, and Flak profile. So it is pretty easy to foresee that every Tac squad will be rocking AA weapons.

And I am going to assume that CSM Havocs will have access tot he Flak missile as well on their launchers.

Flak is likely going to be an upgrade that costs something(either points or you lose one of the other 2 ammo types)

 Grey Templar wrote:

 NuclearMessiah wrote:

Makumba wrote:
I hope marines dont get skyfire on normal launchers . maybe on whirlwinds , but not on devastators or tacticals or land speeders . I like the way it is right now , feels more realistic. marines have to use cover and their power armor to survive flyer attacks , just like they do in the fluff.

Well as I stated earlier, under the infantry weapon entry in Space Marines section in the back, the Missile Launcher has a Frag, Krak, and Flak profile. So it is pretty easy to foresee that every Tac squad will be rocking AA weapons.

And I am going to assume that CSM Havocs will have access to the Flak missile as well on their launchers.

Flak is likely going to be an upgrade that costs something(either points or you lose one of the other 2 ammo types)

I bet you are right, but the potential for PA armies to bring a hyper abundance of AA to the board will likely severely curtail Air Force lists.

Depends on the cost of Flakk.

If I was writing the Flakk upgrade, I would make it either 10 points and lose one of the 2 ammo types, or pay 20 points and simply gain Flakk.

It would be expensive enough to make you consider its viability. Maybe make you consider only taking one or two dedicated AA squads.


I would make it so it would not be something you could viabley spam.

What is with so many people being so defensive when it comes to Flakk missiles being available to a lot of armies, mainly SM ofc?

The current problem with flyers mainly has its roots in Necron and IG flyers - Necron flyers are underpriced and IG flyers are ZOMFGWTFBBQ rididulously underpriced.

Flakk rockets would allow you to shoot at flyers with your normal BF. You still have to hit. You still have to glance / pen. You still have to hope for your enemy not to pass his 5++.

Flakk should have some downfall e.g. not being able to use the small blast option, but overall, I don't see how it would mess up balance even close to be as hard as some people make it out to be.

I am ok with marines getting flakk , if this means their launchers will have to snap fire at ground targets . otherwise it would be too good imo,

 Sigvatr wrote:
What is with so many people being so defensive when it comes to Flakk missiles being available to a lot of armies, mainly SM ofc?

The current problem with flyers mainly has its roots in Necron and IG flyers - Necron flyers are underpriced and IG flyers are ZOMFGWTFBBQ rididulously underpriced.

Flakk rockets would allow you to shoot at flyers with your normal BF. You still have to hit. You still have to glance / pen. You still have to hope for your enemy not to pass his 5++.

Flakk should have some downfall e.g. not being able to use the small blast option, but overall, I don't see how it would mess up balance even close to be as hard as some people make it out to be.

I don't think it will unbalance things, but I feel it may temper the use of flyers a bit. I mean the majority of the market share of 40k is Space Marine players, and if they build an all comer list, then it is safe to assume in the current meta and possibly future, that they will take flak missiles as a standard choice on at least a few squads or a full dev squad just to be able to take out the over abundance of undercosted flyers.

I personally don't care either way since I play with few flyers (can't afford more then 1 or 2 of those damn things anyways)

 NuclearMessiah wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
What is with so many people being so defensive when it comes to Flakk missiles being available to a lot of armies, mainly SM ofc?

The current problem with flyers mainly has its roots in Necron and IG flyers - Necron flyers are underpriced and IG flyers are ZOMFGWTFBBQ rididulously underpriced.

Flakk rockets would allow you to shoot at flyers with your normal BF. You still have to hit. You still have to glance / pen. You still have to hope for your enemy not to pass his 5++.

Flakk should have some downfall e.g. not being able to use the small blast option, but overall, I don't see how it would mess up balance even close to be as hard as some people make it out to be.

I don't think it will unbalance things, but I feel it may temper the use of flyers a bit. I mean the majority of the market share of 40k is Space Marine players, and if they build an all comer list, then it is safe to assume in the current meta and possibly future, that they will take flak missiles as a standard choice on at least a few squads or a full dev squad just to be able to take out the over abundance of undercosted flyers.

That would be a very good thing then in my opinion. Flyers should be a tactical option, not a spammable "I WIN" button. Right now, flyers are too strong / undercosted.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 NuclearMessiah wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
What is with so many people being so defensive when it comes to Flakk missiles being available to a lot of armies, mainly SM ofc?

The current problem with flyers mainly has its roots in Necron and IG flyers - Necron flyers are underpriced and IG flyers are ZOMFGWTFBBQ rididulously underpriced.

Flakk rockets would allow you to shoot at flyers with your normal BF. You still have to hit. You still have to glance / pen. You still have to hope for your enemy not to pass his 5++.

Flakk should have some downfall e.g. not being able to use the small blast option, but overall, I don't see how it would mess up balance even close to be as hard as some people make it out to be.

I don't think it will unbalance things, but I feel it may temper the use of flyers a bit. I mean the majority of the market share of 40k is Space Marine players, and if they build an all comer list, then it is safe to assume in the current meta and possibly future, that they will take flak missiles as a standard choice on at least a few squads or a full dev squad just to be able to take out the over abundance of undercosted flyers.

That would be a very good thing then in my opinion. Flyers should be a tactical option, not a spammable "I WIN" button. Right now, flyers are too strong / undercosted.

Agree with you 100%

ah so it is better if marines and only marines have spamable choices like it was in the 5th with marines MSU , in the 4th with marine minimax , in the 3ed with marine rhino rush ?

A few years of the classic 3ed"star cannon fodder" treatment would do the community good. It is enough that marines ignore half the rules in the game.

Makumba wrote:
ah so it is better if marines and only marines have spamable choices like it was in the 5th with marines MSU , in the 4th with marine minimax , in the 3ed with marine rhino rush ?

A few years of the classic 3ed"star cannon fodder" treatment would do the community good. It is enough that marines ignore half the rules in the game.

We only really know for certain that Marines have a manpad AA choice. We have to wait and see for the Eldar and Tau dex to see what they get.

Makumba wrote:
ah so it is better if marines and only marines have spamable choices like it was in the 5th with marines MSU , in the 4th with marine minimax , in the 3ed with marine rhino rush ?

A few years of the classic 3ed"star cannon fodder" treatment would do the community good. It is enough that marines ignore half the rules in the game.

Most xenos can ally with marines now in order to get access to their toys so it's much less of a problem.

I'm a Necron player myself.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Makumba wrote:
ah so it is better if marines and only marines have spamable choices like it was in the 5th with marines MSU , in the 4th with marine minimax , in the 3ed with marine rhino rush ?

A few years of the classic 3ed"star cannon fodder" treatment would do the community good. It is enough that marines ignore half the rules in the game.

Most xenos can ally with marines now in order to get access to their toys so it's much less of a problem.

I'm a Necron player myself.

Unfortunately, many of us xenon players don't want to have to take marine allies to be able to function. I play an alaitoc craft world army. In the fluff they're described as one of the most xenophobic craft worlds of an already xenophobic race. It generally wouldn't make sense to be bringing marines to shoot down flyers, or even worse, use as durable troops to capture precious objectives.

It would be nice if we just got some AA options of our own. We could also have flak missiles for our guardian platforms, and maybe an AA dedicated unit (flak reapers?). I'm sure these things will be addressed in the new codex, but I dislike the attitude of "just take marine allies" to deal with any situation.

I fully agree with you, I'd also prefer having an own AA option - on the other hand, I'd rather take a marine ally (that's obviously under MSS control) than not having flakk at all

 Sigvatr wrote:
I fully agree with you, I'd also prefer having an own AA option - on the other hand, I'd rather take a marine ally (that's obviously under MSS control) than not having flakk at all

You do its called your whole flipping army foot soldiers can take out fliers if they have enough shots crons have this with immortals. However i do feel AV 12 on fliers is stupid good as there is just so little that can take them down.

Most fliers i run into are are AV 11 or AV 10. Makes them a bit more damageable. (Ork, DE)

The Stormraven is 12's i think. Are the Necron ones 12 too?

Tau Skyrays in their original incarnation had an upgrade that made their weapons Anti-aircraft. Hopefully we shall see that return and the Skyrays become a credible HS choice.

 Ascalam wrote:
Most fliers i run into are are AV 11 or AV 10. Makes them a bit more damageable. (Ork, DE)

The Stormraven is 12's i think. Are the Necron ones 12 too?

Nope, Necron fliers are both 11, but that is offset somewhat by the fact that they ignore half the damage table on a roll of 2-4+.

 Ascalam wrote:
Most fliers i run into are are AV 11 or AV 10. Makes them a bit more damageable. (Ork, DE)

The Stormraven is 12's i think. Are the Necron ones 12 too?

Only the storm raven and valkyrie/vendetta are AV 12

 captain collius wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
Most fliers i run into are are AV 11 or AV 10. Makes them a bit more damageable. (Ork, DE)

The Stormraven is 12's i think. Are the Necron ones 12 too?

Only the storm raven and valkyrie/vendetta are AV 12

And only the Stormraven is 12 all around. Valks/Vendettas are 10 on the rear.

 mwnciboo wrote:
I don't want Imperial Armour annexes for my core range. I would like to see it in the Official Codex 6th Edition Space Marines, with proper units with SKYFIRE which I can use in all tournaments. Especially as 6th has alot of Fliers now, which are Core range and not the expanded Forge World Range.

Well then that's just your preference. Don't complain about lack of AA units when GW has published AA units for your army that are 100% official and intended for standard 40k. It's not their fault that you dismiss them and demand something in in the codex instead.

 Sigvatr wrote:
What is with so many people being so defensive when it comes to Flakk missiles being available to a lot of armies, mainly SM ofc?

Because marine missile launchers are already the "do everything" weapon that you spam everywhere you can. Giving missile launchers an AA shot just means even more missile launchers and even less reason to take anything else. So, if it has to be a missile launcher shot, it needs to replace the standard missiles.