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Logan can give himself a different ability each turn via the High King ability.

A character can confer his abilities on to the unit he joins.

Can Logan give himself say, Preferred Enemy, join an allied unit, and the unit be affected by said power????I see nothing in the rules that says no.

See below.

 DeathReaper wrote:
As long as he is joined to allies that are Battle Brothers they will benefit from his Preferred Enemy.

Could he be joined to non Brotherhood allies?

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
As long as he is joined to allies that are Battle Brothers they will benefit from his Preferred Enemy.

Could he be joined to non Brotherhood allies?

P. 112 has the answer to your question.

An IC can only join an allied unit if they're Battle Brothers.

I disagree with Deathreaper on his interpretation, though I understand his argument. Preferred Enemy states that only one model in the unit needs to have the rule for everyone to benefit.

The High King was specifically errata'd to say that only units/models from Codex: Space Wolves may benefit from The High King.

Deathreaper's argument is that this doesn't matter except for Relentless (which requires each individual model to have it for them to benefit), because Preferred Enemy, Fearless, and Tank Hunters only need one model in the unit to actually HAVE the rule, so even if The High King only confers those rules to Logan, not the allied squad of (say) Deathwing terminators he's joined to, those Deathwing are going to get the benefit of the rule because one model (Logan) in the unit has it.

For my part, I understand the RAW position being taken there, but I disagree with it entirely. I think the meaning and intent of the errata to The High King is completely obvious, and disregarding it on these grounds is Easter Egg-hunting. Perhaps amusing to discuss on the forums, but not something I would ever try to use at the table, or expect any TO to allow.

 Mannahnin wrote:
The High King was specifically errata'd to say that only units/models from Codex: Space Wolves may benefit from The High King.

I did not realize that there was an errata.

If it says that only SW units benefit then only SW units benefit.

 DeathReaper wrote:
As long as he is joined to allies that are Battle Brothers they will benefit from his Preferred Enemy.

I suppose technically yes if the USR is confered to the unit he joins. But the Errata/FAQ states that only friendly units/models from Codex space wolves gain the rule. Seeing as the Errata/FAQ over rides the the BRB being an alteration/official ruling on the codex I would never play it that way.

Pardon, I don't want to use sloppy wording here. It says Logan and any unit from Codex: Space Wolves that he has joined have that rule for the duration of the player turn.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
The High King was specifically errata'd to say that only units/models from Codex: Space Wolves may benefit from The High King.

I did not realize that there was an errata.

If it says that only SW units benefit then only SW units benefit.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2570051a_Space_Wolves_v1.1.pdf


Page 56 – Logan Grimnar, The High King.
Change the last sentence to read: “Logan and any unit from
Codex: Space Wolves that he has joined have that rule for the
duration of the player turn.”

So that answers it, only SW units get the benefit. Any Allied units would not get the benefit.

Not exactly. As we see, Relentless does not count.

But the BRB allows the rule to be passed on from an IC. So Logan passes the rule on to himself, and via the rules in the BRB, they count for the unit as well. Logan is not conferring the power on to the unit via High King, but rather through the rules of the USR's. Nothing states that Logan can not gain PE etc if joined to a non SW unit. Logan gains USR. USR rules say that any ability granted to a character is granted to the unit.

Not RAI but RAW.

But the FaQ specifically only allows "any unit from Codex: Space Wolves" to have that rule.

Allies are not from C:SW

 KGatch113 wrote:


Not exactly. As we see, Relentless does not count.

But the BRB allows the rule to be passed on from an IC. So Logan passes the rule on to himself, and via the rules in the BRB, they count for the unit as well. Logan is not conferring the power on to the unit via High King, but rather through the rules of the USR's. Nothing states that Logan can not gain PE etc if joined to a non SW unit. Logan gains USR. USR rules say that any ability granted to a character is granted to the unit.

Not RAI but RAW.

Ahh but your forgetting that the codex and it relevant Errata/FAQ over rule the BRB. It specifically states that only friendly models from Codex space wolves gain the USRs granted by high king, the standard use of USR's would not apply. There is not exception granted under any circumstance in the high king rule, including the BRB USR rules of confering.

Actually the FAQ says that SW units have the rule (similar to Karandras' stealth rule). So if Logan joins a unit of SW, the while unit has the rule. If he joins a non-SW unit only Logan has the rule, but the unit can still benefit.

Happyjew wrote:
Actually the FAQ says that SW units have the rule (similar to Karandras' stealth rule). So if Logan joins a unit of SW, the while unit has the rule. If he joins a non-SW unit only Logan has the rule, but the unit can still benefit.

No, it states that him self and any unit he joins from the codex space wolves gain the rule. If Logan gains the rule by himself or while joined to a non-space wolf unit then only he gains the benefit. As it explicetly states himself and, not himself and/or, the sum total is considered for the conditions of the rule and not its components.

You dont need to have the rule to benefit from it

The two dont have to be the same.

Logan HAS the rule, but the whole unit benefits from (Fearless, TH, preferred enemy) due to the BRB

The intent is clear, but RAW the way the rules have changed for those 3 rules it doesnt matter "WHO has it, as long as one person in the unit does.

Karandras' Stealth rule specificslly states that Karandras and any unit of Striking Scorpions he joins has the Stealth special rule, yet everybody claims that if Karandtas joins a unit of Guardians they benefit due to the wording of Stealth.

Now, Logan's special rule says that Logan and any SW unit he joins has the special rule and people claim that non-SW units don't benefit. Please explain.

The wording is exactly the same "X and Y have this rule" yet people are claiming its different.

Yeah I'm pretty sure that he would confer the rule to the allied unit he joins PROVIDED that he does not start the turn in that unit and joins it after he using his High King ability (as if he starts in the unit it is not a unit from C:SW).

Well this is my take on it for what its worth:

Page 56 – Logan Grimnar, The High King.
Change the last sentence to read: “Logan and any unit from
Codex: Space Wolves that he has joined have that rule for the
duration of the player turn.”

Page 56 - ..you may choose one of the following special rules at the beginning of each turn; Fearless, Tank Hunters, Preferred Enemy. (then the faq)

So at the beginning of the turn if you choose Preferred Enemy then Logan and all other SW units would benefit. But the FAQ says that ONLY Logan and any unit from Codex SW have the rule for the remainder of the turn, so if your in a BB unit and they are not C:SW then they would not benefit. The codex/FAQ trumps the BRB.


On a side note, Counter Attack is model specific and is not conferred onto other models in a unit.

Preferred Enemy isnt granted to the rest of the unit.
Preferred Enemy has an effect on the entire unit if one model in the unit has it.
The errata nor the codex prevents this from working.

Happyjew wrote:
Karandras' Stealth rule specificslly states that Karandras and any unit of Striking Scorpions he joins has the Stealth special rule, yet everybody claims that if Karandtas joins a unit of Guardians they benefit due to the wording of Stealth.

Who is "everybody"? Certainly not me.

rigeld2 wrote:
Preferred Enemy isnt granted to the rest of the unit.
Preferred Enemy has an effect on the entire unit if one model in the unit has it.
The errata nor the codex prevents this from working.

Only if you think the errata only was meant to restrict Relentless. Which I maintain is an absurd position, flying in the face of obvious meaning. The wording change clearly is meant to restrict what units Logan can enhance using this rule. Your interpretation would make the errata almost meaningless. Again, I can see the point from a strict "having fun discussing what RAW technically means on the internet" perspective, but from a practical "how the rule is actually used in a real game" sense, claiming that Logan can pass on Preferred Enemy to a unit of Deathwing he's joined is just about up there with claiming that models without eyes cannot draw LOS to anything.

Mann, so you don't think that a group of Guardians with Karandras attached would benefit from the Stealth special rule?

No, given the phrasing of Karandras' Stealth rule, I don't believe they would. His rule specifically says it's conferred to Striking Scorpions, which appears exclusive.

I see this as a case of the faq & codex inserting in another restriction but doing it poorly. RAI no benefits from the high king but the RAW are a bit vague so they allow for the rule that require a single model to have the rule to benefit the squads that grimnar joins.

On balance relentless could be far more game breaking if you have the high king with heavy weapons teams or something similar to give mobile fire to everyone. Especially since I cannot think of another model that grants relentless.

 Mannahnin wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Preferred Enemy isnt granted to the rest of the unit.
Preferred Enemy has an effect on the entire unit if one model in the unit has it.
The errata nor the codex prevents this from working.

Only if you think the errata only was meant to restrict Relentless. Which I maintain is an absurd position, flying in the face of obvious meaning. The wording change clearly is meant to restrict what units Logan can enhance using this rule. Your interpretation would make the errata almost meaningless. Again, I can see the point from a strict "having fun discussing what RAW technically means on the internet" perspective, but from a practical "how the rule is actually used in a real game" sense, claiming that Logan can pass on Preferred Enemy to a unit of Deathwing he's joined is just about up there with claiming that models without eyes cannot draw LOS to anything.

No, it's really not, and it really wouldn't.
Logan bestows Tank Hunter using his rule. His errata would mean that doesn't go to the entire unit unless they're C:SW, where before the errata an ally would benefit.

It's the same rule that allowed Telion to save an SM player from buying camp cloaks - because his Stealth conferred benefits to the whole unit.

Okay, so you agree with me then?

Preferred Enemy, Tank Hunters, and Fearless are all rules which normally benefit an entire unit if one model has them. Logan's rule, The High King, gives a special rule to himself and a unit from Codex: Space Wolves, that he is joined to. If you interpret the rule as still benefitting non-SW models that he has joined to, then the errata means nothing except just to restrict Relentless. Which I don't think is at all credible.

I have to agree with Mannahin, they wouldn't have put this in the FAQ if it didn't mean anything.

Logan and any unit from C:SW he has joined have that rule.
Karandras and any unit of Striking Scorpions he has joined have the Stealth special rule.
Apologies if not verbatim, away from books.

Both rules state that "X and Y have rule Z"

I'm confused why one a unit not specified would benefit for one but not the other.

I'm saying that the phrasing of both rules indicates that the benefit to the squad is meant to be exclusive; limited only to Striking Scorpions and units from Codex: Space Wolves, respectively.

The phrasing indicates intent, but falls flat on actually completing that intent by getting the rules correct

If they had used "benefit" instead it would have performed as (presumably) intended.