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So ruins are not area terrain, and Smart missiles do not give cover by line of sight. Do you get a cover save if you are in a ruin against the SMS?

Ruins give a 4+ cover save if 25% covered.
SMS only gives cover to models in their cover(ie area terrain, and special rules that grant a cover save) or if you are touching the item that gives you cover and it lies between you and the firer.

So if I focus fire at a mob of Orks in a ruin, and choose the ones with no cover save, I could get any Ork not touching the lead wall. Correct? Am I missing something?

 megatrons2nd wrote:
So ruins are not area terrain, and Smart missiles do not give cover by line of sight. Do you get a cover save if you are in a ruin against the SMS?

Ruins give a 4+ cover save if 25% covered.
SMS only gives cover to models in their cover(ie area terrain, and special rules that grant a cover save) or if you are touching the item that gives you cover and it lies between you and the firer.

So if I focus fire at a mob of Orks in a ruin, and choose the ones with no cover save, I could get any Ork not touching the lead wall. Correct? Am I missing something?

The Errata/FAQ answers this.

"The target can count the benefits of cover they are in, or touching if it lies between them and the firer."

Smart missiles allow you to shoot them at any unit withing range, reguardless of LOS.

Yes, I wrote that. My question is more in regard to the fact that you are "in" the ruin, but the ruin no longer provides cover the same way as it did when the SMS rules were written.

Does it now work as I described or do they all get cover?

I am leaning toward they don't, but I want confirmation.

Thanks

 megatrons2nd wrote:
Yes, I wrote that. My question is more in regard to the fact that you are "in" the ruin, but the ruin no longer provides cover the same way as it did when the SMS rules were written.

Does it now work as I described or do they all get cover?

I am leaning toward they don't, but I want confirmation.

Thanks

They get the cover save if any cover they are in, like a ruin, or touching (like having a model in btb with a section of ADL) lies between the target unit and the tau unit that fired the missile. It's stated as such in the Errata/FAQ which over rules the obsolete rule in the codex. If however you fire over a ruin that's between you and your target and they are not in or touching the ruin or any other terrain then they receive no cover save. This is true if you can see the target unit or not.

If the ruin has a base and they are on or touching the base, cover.

If the ruin does not have a base only those actually touching parts of the ruin between themselves and the firer have cover.

I with they would just give SMS the Ignores Cover rule and stop the arguments.

Jefffar wrote:
If the ruin has a base and they are on or touching the base, cover.

If the ruin does not have a base only those actually touching parts of the ruin between themselves and the firer have cover.

I with they would just give SMS the Ignores Cover rule and stop the arguments.

There shouldn't be arguments, its handled the same way for hive guard and their impaler cannons. Just described differently.

Further clarification; If the unit is touching the ruin but the SM does not cross the ruin to reach its target unit it doesn't get cover. SMS is also able to use the focus fire rule if only some of the target unit are in, behind touching cover.

They really put in the FAQ the Exact wording of what is in the codex regarding cover?! Brilliant!

 megatrons2nd wrote:
They really put in the FAQ the Exact wording of what is in the codex regarding cover?! Brilliant!

Well no, its rephrased for clarity and you ignore parts about target priority and night fighting. As you know target priority no longer exists. Night fighting affects cover saves now and distance seen, the cover save can be improved by both USRs granted by night fight but the range has no bearing as you can shoot anything with in range reguardless of LOS. It brings the rules for them in line with 6th.

.....The smart missile system can be fired at any target in range regardless of whether there is a line of sight to it or not. The target can count the benefits of cover they are in, or are touching if it lies between them and the firer.


Q: How are cover saves worked out for smart missile systems and seeker missiles as they do not need line of sight?(p27, 30)

A: The target will only receive cover saves that are not based on line of sight. This would include when at least half the unit is in area terrain; or a vehicle with wargear or a special rule that means they are obscured


So to answer your question, yes you are correct. The ruin grants a 4+ cover save based on obscurement, which the SMS ignores. So those Orks that are touching the ruin wall if its between them and firer would be allowed a cover save. Those behind but not touching the wall would not get a cover save.

Fragile wrote:
.....The smart missile system can be fired at any target in range regardless of whether there is a line of sight to it or not. The target can count the benefits of cover they are in, or are touching if it lies between them and the firer.


Q: How are cover saves worked out for smart missile systems and seeker missiles as they do not need line of sight?(p27, 30)

A: The target will only receive cover saves that are not based on line of sight. This would include when at least half the unit is in area terrain; or a vehicle with wargear or a special rule that means they are obscured


So to answer your question, yes you are correct. The ruin grants a 4+ cover save based on obscurement, which the SMS ignores. So those Orks that are touching the ruin wall if its between them and firer would be allowed a cover save. Those behind but not touching the wall would not get a cover save.

To clarify;

SMS does not ignore the cover save when half a unit is in area terrain or when a vehicle gains a save from wargear or other special rule that means they are obscured. Just because the base system for SMS is similar to impaler cannons does not make them act the same as impaler cannons. A unit that is more than 12" away from a SMS firing unit in night fight gains +1 to an existing cover save (IE one they are able to receive following the rules for SMS) or the 6+, more than 24" gains +3 to an existing or a 4+ (6+ cover with the shrouded bonus). If a vehicle is using smoke launchers, it counts as obscured. If its behind a terrain piece but not in it or touching it, it does not. If a unit or vehicle is in the area of effect of a psychic power or wargear item like an ork force field then it gets the cover save. As it is stated in the FAQ section that you just quoted.

In the case of the orks in the Ruin, more often than not, has a boundary so should be considered area terrain which they would get a cover save from. If its not, then the unit has to be touching the wall of the ruin on the furtherst side to gain a cover save. If there are models in and out of cover, you can still use focus fire to ignore those in cover. If the unit is just in the ruins general foot print but it is not area terrain and they are not touching the wall they receive no cover save.