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Exciting stuff, but I hope the setting isn't changed too much.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Atia on B&C
Howdy Guys and Girls

A white raven appeared today and brought me a message - winter is coming ...

Warhammer 40k turns 30 years old next year. The new edition is due. The clock will be taken from 5 minutes to midnight to 1 minute to midnight with the return of the Daemonprimarchs - or will they return alone? This is the theme of the new setting - think along the lines of 13th Black Crusade - but this time, it's serious. They want to get the same excitement as the community had during the End Times - without actually going as far as Age of Sigmar did.

Chaos fans - this is your hour. Stop beeing grudgy, there will be lots of love for all of you - renegades, former legions, daemon lovers.

The lore already start to unfold, with the Shield of Baal and Warzone Fenris - so we are already within the action. As usual, this is a bit of an early talk, so stay cool and take it with a tiny bit of salt.

Night Lords and Imperial Fists reporting in.

I'm now more tempted than ever to pick up the DW codex when it comes out. I like the idea of the Navy Seals with Inquisitorial support.

8e next year then, or is it 7.5? Either way, it hasn't been all that long since 7e dropped, only about 2 years ago now.

But, I'm excited for the future. I really hope the insinuation is that we might also see Loyalist Primarchs return as well. Plenty of them are still alive but "missing", and personally I think it'd be interesting to see them face off against Magnus, Lorgar, Mortarion, and the like.

I'm curious what happens if they bring back the lion. What effect that would have on the dark angels/fallen angels and cypher. I'm not exactly an expert on the lore, but I'm not entirely convinced the lion is a loyalist. At least not in the sense of serving what the imperium has become. I feel like we might get a few twists as far as fallen angels and alpha legion or maybe even night lords go.

The return of the Loyalist Primarchs would shatter the Imperium. The High Lords would declare them fakes to retain power and the Primarchs wouldn't tolerate the Imperium as it is.

It would be great to see some of the big Chapters turn solo if the Imperium goes wonky.

Storywise...everything has been mauled so much with retcons I don't really know what to think. As a whole, as I posted earlier, I'd like to see the Imperium on the back foot a whole heck of a lot (not likely given the absurd abundance of codices and armies GW is insisting on pumping out every other month).

I only hope that Chaos finally gets it's long deserved & badly need full overhaul of our entire model line... And rules wise, I don't care if overall we still suck the big one, but at least give us back the uniqueness & character that was so cruelly taken from us with the entire retconning of the 3.5ed codex.

As for the Primarchs returning, hopefully we can get the four main Chaos ones first.
Loyalists get too much love as it is. Now it's Chaos' turn to get some actual love for once.

The entire line? Wow that's insane and waaay too high expectations. Even Space Marines couldn't expect that. Geez CSM players are nutty sometimes. I think they set themselves up for disappointment.

They also never seem to miss a chance to bash all Loyalist players as scum who don't want Chaos to have any nice things. Gives me the warm n fuzzies.

I think they have to do something with csm rules in order to make the campaign and story believable.

If they're calling csm a threat in the campaign book, it would be kind of ridiculous to have to play games against SW and DA and just get destroyed. It would be immersion breaking if they don't at least give csm SOME teeth.

As it is now, the idea of csm (the codex) threatening space wolves (the codex) is pretty laughable.

 War Kitten wrote:
They also never seem to miss a chance to bash all Loyalist players as scum who don't want Chaos to have any nice things. Gives me the warm n fuzzies.

Well they are likely using automated script to handle all that...I mean nobody spends that much time posting same thing manually when automated script deals it for you!

 Gamgee wrote:
The entire line? Wow that's insane and waaay too high expectations. Even Space Marines couldn't expect that. Geez CSM players are nutty sometimes. I think they set themselves up for disappointment.

I don't think Chaos will get its entire line updated, but I think GW could come pretty close. There are obviously models that are relatively new, for example Raptors, hellbrute, and Daemon engines. GW isn't going to update them.

Before the end of the year its been said GW is suppose have Tzneetch releases for both AoS and 40k and supposedly Slaanesh is part of the tail end of the AoS campaign so we could see some 40k slaanesh releases shortly there after too. IF GW continues the trend this new "Black Crusade" will be at a minimum two campaign books, each an opportunity to release a few more chaos models. Then there is ultimately the CSM codex. Even if all the releases are relatively light with 2 or 3 kits released coinciding with each of those its 10-15 chaos kits. That is pretty close to the number of units left in the codex after you exclude recent models or characters. All that's before you consider things like two-in-one kits like if Obliterators and Mutilators were updated into a single kit.

The largest update for a single update in recent times was Tau.

We got a new troop, xv8 updates, new crisis suit commander, new ethereal, ghostkeel, stormsurge, and the 4 pieces of terrain in the tidewall.

So 10 new models kinda sorta and the troop was just a sprue insert.

15 seems insane for CSM and setting the expectations waaay too high.

AdMech had 8 for the whole army release if you count Skitarii and Cult Mech together, 9 if you're generous and count the Knight Crusader/Gallant/Warden kit.

While it's possible they update the Chaos line, it won't be all at once and it probably won't be all of it.

 Gamgee wrote:
Given the new information from Atia I think I smell HERESY! I get the feeling the IoM and Tau have been goaded into fighting each other. They are now softened up badly in the region with the Tau and so are the Tau. We see the first signs of Tau warp research which I think can only end in disaster. Not only this but the book said it was weather control satellites but I don't think so. I have a feeling the Tau were using secret psykers.

I got a feeling someone is pulling the strings of the Tau and IoM in the gulf and that would be chaos related. Even the admiral of the fleet was hesitant to use the weapon the "tech priests" used on the planet that also wiped out his own soldiers and men and then ignited the region into a pre warp rift. Sounds more like a bunch of hereteks to me. Regular exterminatus would have sufficed without drawing on such strange weaponry.

So now the two forces are weak and there is a warp rift. And we know the time of Chaos is coming.

I think its a safe bet the Tau and much of the IoM is infiltrated on a grand scale.

Man, imagine the Tau ethereals being Warpspawn or heretics that were sent to a primitive race to quickly develop into a seemingly peaceful and rather harmless race that has no fething clue about the warp, warp travel or psykers, ALL serving the ulterior purpose of opening a fething warp rift on the other side of the Imperium. JUST AS PLANNED MOTHER-F***ERS!

If this happens I take back every bad word I've ever said about Tau. If not, then they're still the most out of place faction in 40K.

 Gamgee wrote:
The largest update for a single update in recent times was Tau.

We got a new troop, xv8 updates, new crisis suit commander, new ethereal, ghostkeel, stormsurge, and the 4 pieces of terrain in the tidewall.

So 10 new models kinda sorta and the troop was just a sprue insert.

15 seems insane for CSM and setting the expectations waaay too high.

Agreed. Though we are allegedly getting Thousand Sons separately, which means probably a new Chaos Sorcerer at the same time (what are 1KS without Sorcerers?). So there is two kits probably not getting included. I could see a new CSM kit being designed as the basis of more kits, kinda like the Space Wolf Pack. So it would be the CSM kit plus X sprue equals X Cult Marine. Or even a modular kit where the kit has certain parts removed and a new sprue added to make the Cult Marine. That way they could cut back on the number of new molds actually needed to be produced.

 Gamgee wrote:
The largest update for a single update in recent times was Tau.

We got a new troop, xv8 updates, new crisis suit commander, new ethereal, ghostkeel, stormsurge, and the 4 pieces of terrain in the tidewall.

So 10 new models kinda sorta and the troop was just a sprue insert.

15 seems insane for CSM and setting the expectations waaay too high.

You kinda missed the point. It is a fact CSM needs a lot. The opportunity also exists to receive a lot. If all the rumors hold true over the next year and a half there are 5 distinct opportunities for GW to release a few CSM models at a time, to support these different books. The TAU release was basically 7 kit releases in support of 2 campaign books and a codex that combined the added content. The attention chaos is getting is likely two additional campaign books beyond what the Tau releases supported. There will be some time that passes between them, so its not as if its one mega release. So 10-15 releases is not a crazy estimate, 2-3 per book.

Let's look at it from GW's perspective. If GW has recognized the need to release this many CSM kits, how would they go about doing it? -If they did just a codex release they'd put out 5 maybe 6 kits and come no where near the number of releases they'd needed to correct the model line. Releasing them in support of these campaign books allow them to release more and allow them to drive hype around the campaign, ut also allows them draw out the peak sales period of a product line. GW's sales record show they've identified that the great majority of a new kit will be sold in the first 3 months, but that period after the initial peak is where the overall profitability of a model kit is realized. In that way GW's campaigns and supplements are intended to draw out that peak past the break even point. GW by selling the new CSM across this many releases really serves double purpose.

Nothing released with the second Tau book though. It just wrapped up the story and put the sequel hooks in.

It's not necessarily about need, but logistics. Its a supreme effort for GW to do that and take away from their ability to do other things. I still think your setting your expectations way too high then your going to bitch and I'm going to laugh since its only your own fault. What next expecting them to deliver the Chaos marine minis to their destinations in boxes made of moonstone and gold too?

We haven't had any releases as big as the Tau one since AdMech. I think it's safe to assume 8-10 kits between new releases and updates. Which is a lot more than most of us on top of your vast array of models. Poor DE barely have any options in their army and sisters has half of their meager options.

I think the lack of 40k releases is largely because of AoS; every AoS release is pretty much a whole army and that's definitely taking up resources. The large waits though only point to whatever gets released being significant. These re-bundled and spun-off individual releases point to a need to fill release windows and to free up design and production resources.

As far as Tau releases go, it only helps the argument GW could get Chaos revamped and replace majority of the chaos line given the number of book releases said to be featuring chaos. GW could do 2-3 with each book or like Tau we could see 7 with one campaign book and another 7 with the next or with a codex. The opportunity clearly exist that's all I'm saying.

 aka_mythos wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
The entire line? Wow that's insane and waaay too high expectations. Even Space Marines couldn't expect that. Geez CSM players are nutty sometimes. I think they set themselves up for disappointment.

I don't think Chaos will get its entire line updated, but I think GW could come pretty close. There are obviously models that are relatively new, for example Raptors, hellbrute, and Daemon engines. GW isn't going to update them.

Before the end of the year its been said GW is suppose have Tzneetch releases for both AoS and 40k and supposedly Slaanesh is part of the tail end of the AoS campaign so we could see some 40k slaanesh releases shortly there after too. IF GW continues the trend this new "Black Crusade" will be at a minimum two campaign books, each an opportunity to release a few more chaos models. Then there is ultimately the CSM codex. Even if all the releases are relatively light with 2 or 3 kits released coinciding with each of those its 10-15 chaos kits. That is pretty close to the number of units left in the codex after you exclude recent models or characters. All that's before you consider things like two-in-one kits like if Obliterators and Mutilators were updated into a single kit.

I wouldn't expect 15 kits. Campaign books can for example have non-chaos kits released after all. Also how many of those 15 kits you expect to be redo's of EXISTING kits and how many NEW kits? Daemon primarch or two, some new tzeentchian elite unit or two, some new daemon engine...Oh and couple clam pack characters. Those always come.

15 old kits redone is extremely hopeful. If chaos gets 15 releases 3 units getting redone would be very good result.

 Gamgee wrote:


15 seems insane for CSM and setting the expectations waaay too high.

I'm a CSM player and I agree with this.

15 new kits? Unlikely.

Give GW's propensity for Dual Kits however and that takes some of the OOF out of it.

Mutilators/Obliterators is obvious. Why GW haven't done this yet is baffling.
CSM/Chosen could well be a thing. Heck, that also would lend itself to Special Weapon Havocs as well so that's a 3 for one right there.
Havocs need to be a thing.

I dream of plastic Cult Troops but ultimately feel that an upgrade sprue for each would be more feasible than a new kit for each. Direct Only but say a sprue for each. Could see the rumoured Thousand Sons being the launch of the new CSM kit boxed with the sprue for a limited time. Then a few months down the line see a Berserker Sprue to retire the Berserker box and then Plague and Noise sprues.

They could also do some sprue recuts - mainly for the Chaos Terminators to at least give them minimal options. The amount of power weapons and normal boring plain combi bolters in that kit is embarassing.

Man, imagine the Tau ethereals being Warpspawn or heretics that were sent to a primitive race to quickly develop into a seemingly peaceful and rather harmless race that has no fething clue about the warp, warp travel or psykers, ALL serving the ulterior purpose of opening a fething warp rift on the other side of the Imperium. JUST AS PLANNED MOTHER-F***ERS!

I believe Xenology heavily hinted that it was the Eldar who set up the Ethereals.

To be fair, Chaos marines don't need much to be able to compete with their loyalists - the problem isn't capability so much as cost.

A Chaos Marine squad with Veterans Of The Long War, additional close combat weapons, a mark of chaos and the respective icon is definitely man-for-man more capable than equivalent tactical marines. The problem is that you're paying about 1/4 to 1/3 the price again per model.

Formations & Detachments granting you some of that stuff for free, on the other hand, can take the sting out of that and is a great balancing tool.

The sprues you really, really need are havocs (because plastic heavy and assault weapon), which also - mixing with normal marines & raptors to cherry-pick the blingyest armour - gives you shooty chosen.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Mutilators/Obliterators is obvious. Why GW haven't done this yet is baffling.

Jetbikes for eldar were bloody obvious. They even had the model ready. Yet it took like a decade to get it done.

Plastic aspect warriors been expected on every eldar release. Has yet to materialize.

They release new models based on what designers(model) thinks is cool.

Do GW anymore do upgrade sprues? They didn't release upgrade sprues say for BA but went for full kit...I doubt idea of cult troops being basic marines+upgrade sprue. That's been quite dead policy for quite a while.

They literally released upgrade sprues for BA, DA, SW and Ultramarines back around the time they released the new Vanilla and DA codexes, even though at that point both BA and SW had their own unique kits and DA already (and still do through the veteran box) and existing upgrade sprue.

One of the vintage Tzeentch 40k designs were disk-mounted Chaos Space Marines - especially those with Heavy weapons. They had miniatures in Epic and 40k. I cannot find the quite interesting artworks with a quick google search but they were iconic units up to the mid 90s. Discs of Tzeentch are still a thing and jetbike/jumppack/jetpack Havocs would offer a nice additional unit for a Thousand Sons release.



But I doubt that will happen


We have rumors from SP that 1k Sons miniatures will be in the next HH board game (late '16). These could be generic but should be a good base for 30k and 40k basic 1k Sons Marines. With Forgeworld already offering their upgrade bits and Dreadnoughts, plastic 30k models will pull those in who do not want to buy the pure FW kits.


Silver Tower brought Pink, Blue and Brimstone Horrors - with rules for AoS. Safe bet we will see 1-2 multipart plastic kits usable for both 40k and AoS. There are also rumors about more AoS Tzeentch models and a LoC plastic kit.



Rubric Marines are like Wulfen, Harlequins and Scions an Elite unit and could be released in a similiar fashion as 5-men kits with some additional or new rules in one of the next campaign books. Adding Magnus to the 40k releases and we have a solid range to build Thousand Sons.




The floating/skimmer/flying theme for Tzeentch was already picked up with the Heldrake, Charriots and AoS Sorcerers on discs. Something simliar to the Epic Silver Towers, like a Tzeentch superheavy or building kit would be nice. The Soulgrinder in both 40k and AoS and the fact that back in the days Warhmmer Fantasy had Lord of Skulls and other large size daemon engines (in the fluff at least) made me wonder if GW would offer another crossover one day - Silver Towers of Tzeentch could be a good choice for that.

So this was posted on the AoS thread, the former seems 40k related. This will come after the Sylvaneth release supposedly.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
So this was posted on the AoS thread, the former seems 40k related. This will come after the Sylvaneth release supposedly.

Yeah if that ain't hint to something HH related I'm surprised.

Though I'm surprised it has been able to come THIS well clouded in secrecy. Okay we knew there's new HH box coming but at least I wasn't aware it's coming THIS soon. I was expecting august more like it. One would have expected more hype over release by now.

Damn GW and their secrecy! Dark angels in real life

tneva82 wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
So this was posted on the AoS thread, the former seems 40k related. This will come after the Sylvaneth release supposedly.

Yeah if that ain't hint to something HH related I'm surprised.

Though I'm surprised it has been able to come THIS well clouded in secrecy. Okay we knew there's new HH box coming but at least I wasn't aware it's coming THIS soon. I was expecting august more like it. One would have expected more hype over release by now.

Damn GW and their secrecy! Dark angels in real life

Unless you've read the books, you'll never really know what the DA in 40k are about

tneva82 wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
The entire line? Wow that's insane and waaay too high expectations. Even Space Marines couldn't expect that. Geez CSM players are nutty sometimes. I think they set themselves up for disappointment.

I don't think Chaos will get its entire line updated, but I think GW could come pretty close. There are obviously models that are relatively new, for example Raptors, hellbrute, and Daemon engines. GW isn't going to update them.

Before the end of the year its been said GW is suppose have Tzneetch releases for both AoS and 40k and supposedly Slaanesh is part of the tail end of the AoS campaign so we could see some 40k slaanesh releases shortly there after too. IF GW continues the trend this new "Black Crusade" will be at a minimum two campaign books, each an opportunity to release a few more chaos models. Then there is ultimately the CSM codex. Even if all the releases are relatively light with 2 or 3 kits released coinciding with each of those its 10-15 chaos kits. That is pretty close to the number of units left in the codex after you exclude recent models or characters. All that's before you consider things like two-in-one kits like if Obliterators and Mutilators were updated into a single kit.

I wouldn't expect 15 kits. Campaign books can for example have non-chaos kits released after all. Also how many of those 15 kits you expect to be redo's of EXISTING kits and how many NEW kits? Daemon primarch or two, some new tzeentchian elite unit or two, some new daemon engine...Oh and couple clam pack characters. Those always come.

15 old kits redone is extremely hopeful. If chaos gets 15 releases 3 units getting redone would be very good result.

I'm just saying there is the reasonable opportunity to release 10-15 and to still be in the norm for what GW typically releases alongside all the different books expected for Chaos.

Because CSM models are from an era where GW had a slightly different philosophy of kit design, if certain kits get redone those redesigns will cascade into others. If the CSM tactical squad is redone there are off the top of my head 4 other kits that would likely be redone or repackaged at the same time. If Obliterators are redone Mutilators will too. Those two realities greatly improve the likelihood of seeing more done all at once. If GW doesn't take that approach they'll have made things cumbersome for themselves.