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 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Yeah I thought monsters wounding at 4+ was a bit off.

Imagine if monsters and humans had actual stats, so that a monster might wound a human more easily than another monster.

But this is getting into 4D Chess levels of game design. Clearly far too complicated for such a new company.

Both the to hit and to wound being fixed it is idiotic. It doesn't actually matter if you have 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound or vice versa.

You're stuck in the mindtrap of statistics. Open your mind to the truth of gatekeeping rolls. 3+/4+ is superior to 4+/3+.

 Rihgu wrote:
You're stuck in the mindtrap of statistics. Open your mind to the truth of gatekeeping rolls. 3+/4+ is superior to 4+/3+.

Erm... what? Mathematically they have identical probability outcomes... or are you just being facetious?

that was sarcasm

and yes, 3+/4+ and 4+/3+ being the main difference between certain units already caused some discussion in 1st Edition as people somehow cannot get behind the idea that this is the same because there must be a significant difference between units (as GW games have more depth than that)

 Crimson wrote:
Both the to hit and to wound being fixed it is idiotic. It doesn't actually matter if you have 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound or vice versa.

It does if the modifiers to either are not available in equal amounts.

Balloon Dwarves.

 kodos wrote:
that was sarcasm

It was not.

When we're not rolling 10,000 dice at a time, statistics barely matters. It can give a general idea of an outcome but we're dealing in a small enough set that outliers are numerous. At the scale of dice rolling we're actually doing, gatekeeper rolls matter - having better chances higher up the chain means you're more likely to get to the next step. 3+/4+ is better than 4+/3+ because you'll usually get to roll more to wound dice in the former.

At an extreme example, 2+ to hit, 2+ to wound, and enemy has a 2+ save is better than 6+ to hit, 2+ to wound, and enemy has a 6+ save, even though they are statistically the same.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Billicus wrote:
Buying the indexes as cards, with them being available for download for free "shortly after" - how about just make the downloads free from the beginning you jerks?

You buy the cards first, point out all the typos, then GW gives the free, corrected download that's actually playable. You're essentially paying to be a proofreader.

Pdf actually comes 1st. Cards on sale later

SE focus https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/05/21/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-faction-focus-stormcast-eternals/

Interesting. So they have a deepstrike and a similar ability to Skaven to resurrect a unit at half strength once per battle.

Also i particularly like Yndrasta's negative modifier blocking ability.

a bit disappointed we didn't get the full index, and a bit disappointed we didn't get an idea of what the character + units blocks that are used for army construction are like. wish we had gotten to see one or two of those here

Faction focus is just that. Faction focus. They did same thing in 40k last year(and aos 3, 40k 9th etc".

Index download comes later. Was 40k ones week leading to preorder or instore date? Odds are similar. And after core rules are out.

thought i remembered the indexes being linked at the end of the faction overviews last year

 Rihgu wrote:

 kodos wrote:
that was sarcasm

It was not.

When we're not rolling 10,000 dice at a time, statistics barely matters. It can give a general idea of an outcome but we're dealing in a small enough set that outliers are numerous. At the scale of dice rolling we're actually doing, gatekeeper rolls matter - having better chances higher up the chain means you're more likely to get to the next step. 3+/4+ is better than 4+/3+ because you'll usually get to roll more to wound dice in the former.

What are you even talking about?

Having more dice at the wounding stage is irrelevant if you then lose more dice because your odds of wounding are worse.

Let's take 36 dice (for simplicity of math) and compare an extreme of hitting on 6+, wounding on 2+ vs. hitting on 2+, wounding on 6+.

In the first scenario, you'll hit with only 6/36 of your hits. Pathetic, right? But then you'll wound with 5/6 of them, for a total of 5 wounds.

In the second scenario, you'll hit with 30/36 hits. YEAH, BABY! ROCK ON! 30 ROLLS TO WOUND! Except reality then kicks in and you'll actually wound with only 5/30 for a grand total of... 5 wounds.

Almost as if it makes no fething difference whether you get more hits or more wounds because the only thing that matters in the end is the final outcome.

Now, you're free to argue that this is just averages. Indeed, even if you roll exactly 36 dice, you might not get exactly 5 wounds at the end. To which the answer is 'so what?'. The point of statistics of this nature is not to be a crystal ball but to predict where the average will fall over the course of a given game.

 Rihgu wrote:

At an extreme example, 2+ to hit, 2+ to wound, and enemy has a 2+ save is better than 6+ to hit, 2+ to wound, and enemy has a 6+ save, even though they are statistically the same.

Neither of those scenarios is better than the other.

Though I agree you would want the first unit, because hitting and wounding on 2+/2+ is obviously better than hitting and wounding on 6+/2+.

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
thought i remembered the indexes being linked at the end of the faction overviews last year

No they came later.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/08/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-astra-militarum-2/

No pdf there that i see.

Detachment, unit or two, marketing speak.

Quite similar to what stormcast had

That was 8th may. 14.6 is when imperium indexes came online(ig, custodes, all non-marine imperium).

Belthanos wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Billicus wrote:
Buying the indexes as cards, with them being available for download for free "shortly after" - how about just make the downloads free from the beginning you jerks?

You buy the cards first, point out all the typos, then GW gives the free, corrected download that's actually playable. You're essentially paying to be a proofreader.

Pdf actually comes 1st. Cards on sale later

Yeah, they edited the article.

Is anybody else bothered by the fact that Yndrasta and Prosecutors have almost the same ability with a different name, just worded slightly differently and the Prosecutors don't have a dice pool limit?

Yndrasta: 'add 1 to the number of dice rolled when making charge rolls for this unit, to a maximum of 3'

Prosecutors: 'when you make a charge roll for this unit, roll 1 additional dice'

It just feels like they could have A) used the same sentence structure for both or B) just use the same ability twice and decide which version to keep since they are super similar with the exception that one of them can technically stack buffs more.

GW has been doing that for ages. Best theory is that they've got a mandate that all models must have unique rules however design wise there's only a limited number of ideas/concepts they can use.

Heck I've seen them give the identical same ability different names in the same battletome (one of the seeker riders for slaanesh one edition).

It's bonkers but I suspect its a manger/CEO bit of feedback that "players like models with unique abilities" being translated into "give them to every unit so that everyone likes everything" which boils down to daft game design concepts.

So now we have racials? this game is becoming a MMORPG/modern videogame by the second!

Also surprised that Anhilators didn't got the abstraction of having both weapon loadouts fused like Libs.

Billicus wrote:
Buying the indexes as cards

*Indices


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Balloon Dwarves.

*Dorfs

 CMLR wrote:

*Indices

Actually, both are acceptable.

 CMLR wrote:

Billicus wrote:
Buying the indexes as cards

*Indices

indici

Skaven https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/05/22/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-faction-focus-skaven/

like the potential for tricky movement here. feels like they're pushing skaven more in the direction of genestealer cults

rip eshin, tho

Eshin were referenced as a keyword on the Verminlord character, at least.

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
rip eshin, tho

What makes you think they're going away? They're literally the first Clan mentioned:

'The lesser clans themselves belong to one of the Great Clans, which dominate Skaven society with their specialties and secrets – the assassins of the Clans Eshin, the madcap engineers of the Clans Skryre, the breeders and beast handlers of the Clans Moulder, or the plague priests of the Clans Pestilens.'

they showed off a Moulder battle formation, and said,

Pestilens, Skryre, and Clan Verminus also have representation in the Skaven Battle Formations, specialising in lethal prototypes, corrupting the earth itself, and emboldening your rank-and-file Clanrats, Stormvermin, and other Claw-horde units.

which, even if Eshin still has models and rules, shows them being left out of this here

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/05/22/abraxia-and-gunnar-brand-rule-the-days-before-the-skaventide-with-free-warscrolls/

Eshin are a bit like the Imperial Agents in 40K

Both are "elite assassin" focused groups.



Eshin do have large numbers of skaven but they are never really shown as a huge marching army. Every time I recall seeing them its more Clan Eshin in support of another group of Skaven. Elite troops brought into the army to provide their skills; rather than a whole army on their own.

Historically they've had the smallest line of models specific to them of all the clans of Skaven and its always been assassins and elite style troops with the rest being regular skaven.


So I could see GW simply putting them to the side as a Clan but in game just being specialist troops and leaders for hire.

The alternative is that they have a long term plan to deepen the lore on them and flesh them out. However its tricky because Skaven is 1 Battletome not 4. You can only add some many things into each slot before its tripping over itself and I don't get the feeling that GW wants to do with Skaven what they did iwth Chaos Demons. AT least not now and not for a long long time, if ever.

Counterpoint: Eshin were the only clan to get a non-index, non-WD army in Fantasy.