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Having issues at my venue trying to explain how the new cover rules are working.

Basic issue that came up was a 5 man unit of Guardsman moved into the 2nd floor of a ruin to claim an objective in my deployment zone during a game. My Doom Scythe moved in from Reserve and had a clear line of fire to use the Death Ray to target the first guardsman lined up across the ruin in a straight line. I rolled enough to cover all the guards and my opponent choose to go to ground in an attempt to gain a 3+ cover save. 4+ for the ruin +1 for going to ground. My argument was that the guardsman were in no way obscured by the ruin and therefore gained no benefit per the 6th edition rules for cover. The base of a ruin is the only thing considered area terrain.

Please help me explain this as plainly using specific rules citations from the book as I had trouble locating the exact wording in the new rulebook that would alter how the terrain worked from 5th edition.

Cover requires obscurement unless you are in area terrain. If you are not obscured from the point of view of the firer, then you do not get a cover save. If the ruin obscured 25% of the guardsman's body, then he would get the 4+ ruin (and +1 GTG ) save.

+1 for Fragile's answer

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Having issues at my venue trying to explain how the new cover rules are working.

Basic issue that came up was a 5 man unit of Guardsman moved into the 2nd floor of a ruin to claim an objective in my deployment zone during a game. My Doom Scythe moved in from Reserve and had a clear line of fire to use the Death Ray to target the first guardsman lined up across the ruin in a straight line. I rolled enough to cover all the guards and my opponent choose to go to ground in an attempt to gain a 3+ cover save. 4+ for the ruin +1 for going to ground. My argument was that the guardsman were in no way obscured by the ruin and therefore gained no benefit per the 6th edition rules for cover. The base of a ruin is the only thing considered area terrain.

Please help me explain this as plainly using specific rules citations from the book as I had trouble locating the exact wording in the new rulebook that would alter how the terrain worked from 5th edition.

Direct him to page 98. The ruin counts as difficult terrain and grants a 4+ if the model is obscured. But if its on the ground level and the ruin has a base, then its area terrain with the rules stated on page 91.

1st, I don't find anything in the 6th that indicated ''base of a ruin is area terrain''.

Go see page 18, Determening Cover Saves : ''when you come to allocate a Wound [...] 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer'' and Go to Ground : ''After the enemy rolled To hit and to wound against any of your units, but before any saves are made or Wounds allocated''

So, if your big guy arrives from reserve and is positioned so no enemy models have 25% of their body hidden by the ruins and your opponent decides not to go to ground, then they have no cover save at all.

If your opponent decides to Go to Ground , then he has a 3+ cover saves for models with at least 25% of their body hidden (resolving Wounds one-by-one starting from the nearest model). That is because the rules specify that Go to Ground is resolved before wounds are allocated and Determening Cover Saves is resolved when it comes time to allocate Wounds.

In addition, unfortunately for you, Focus Fire is resolved before any Roll to Hit is made so it is too late to declare it (you had to predict your opponent's decisions and specify a Focus Fire before rolling).

Focus Fire allows you to choose ANY cover save value (6+ would have been your choice there) and ''your opponent can only allocate Wounds to models with a cover save equal or worse(i.e. a higher value) than the value stated'', all models not hidden by the ruins in your situation if you chose 6+. Of course you have to make sure at least 1 model won't have cover after going to ground if you decide to focus fire otherwise you won't do anything at all.

p98 has a section on ruins with bases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Citabogue wrote:

Focus Fire allows you to choose ANY cover save value (6+ would have been your choice there) and ''your opponent can only allocate Wounds to models with a cover save equal or worse(i.e. a higher value) than the value stated'', all models not hidden by the ruins in your situation if you chose 6+. Of course you have to make sure at least 1 model won't have cover after going to ground if you decide to focus fire otherwise you won't do anything at all.

GTG doesn't affect what can be Wounded, but the GTG models do get the extra save bonus (p19 2nd para)

Snapshot is right on that point.

Sorry for confusing you with Focus Fire... Though, your opponent still gets 3+ cover save for hidden models, allowing Wounds one-by-one starting with the nearest.

Citabogue wrote:
1st, I don't find anything in the 6th that indicated ''base of a ruin is area terrain''.

Page 91: Area Terain: 'Models in area terrain receive a 5+ cover save, whether or not they are 25% obscured. Models that Go to Ground in area terrain receive +2 to their cover save, rather than +1.

Page 98: RUINS: Ruins with Bases: 'A ruin might be mounted on a base, decorated with rubble, and other debris. In this case, treat the base as area terrain.'

The bold text is as printed in the Rulebook.

Not sure why the guardsmen were getting a 3+ cover. IRC 6th changed the obscurement of area terrain to a 5+ and GTG only gives a +1 to that, wouldn't it simply be a 4+ cover?

From the OP, the guards were in the upper levels of the ruin which would be a 4+ cover save (provided that it actually did provide cover)

Ruins still give 4+ cover, most other terrain got bumped up to 5+

OP is correct that you only get the cover save from ruins if you are 25% obscured or you are standing on the ground floor of a ruin with a base

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Not sure why the guardsmen were getting a 3+ cover. IRC 6th changed the obscurement of area terrain to a 5+ and GTG only gives a +1 to that, wouldn't it simply be a 4+ cover?

Read the post directly above yours for the answer to your question.

It's still up in the air (unresolved debate) wether or not models 'above' area terrain (for example guardsmen on the 2nd story of a ruin, a model on a skimmer base, a model 'on' elevated terrain, etc) count as being 'in' area terrain.

My take on it is that they do, but there are equally logical arguments stating they don't. Work this out with your opponents and/or the TO prior to play if you think it will be relevent.

 Neorealist wrote:
It's still up in the air (unresolved debate) wether or not models 'above' area terrain (for example guardsmen on the 2nd story of a ruin, a model on a skimmer base, a model 'on' elevated terrain, etc) count as being 'in' area terrain.

My take on it is that they do, but there are equally logical arguments stating they don't. Work this out with your opponents and/or the TO prior to play if you think it will be relevent.

All ruins are difficult terrain and provide a 4+ cover save. This would say All ruins are area terrain and provide a 4+ cover save if that was intended. Especially since you can play the ruins without the base and there is no area terrain involved at all.