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Hey guys

Right now my poor brets are getting repeatedly smashed by dark elves. I have a few specific questions but right off the bat any general tips you might have would be greatly appreciated.

We usually play around 2000-2300 points. My opponent's list usually has a unit of blackguards, 30-40 spearmen with a sorceress, another 20ish repeater crossbows with another sorceress, a cauldron of blood, and 8 or 10 coldone knights. Those are the units he takes almost every time. Other things he adds onto that core are some combination of corsairs, a hydra, a pegasus lord, executioners, shades, or harpies.

My list is somewhat more restricted as I don't have that many figures; just 2 batt boxes, 2 trebs, and 2 damsels. I don't field the pegs from the batt box because I don't have a third to make a unit, but I'm planning on getting one. To get much over 2000 points with those figures I have to max out my lords and heroes points allotment.

Generally speaking, what I've found is that I have only 2 units that can actually kill anything: a KOTR unit with my lord, prophetess/damsel, pally bsb; and a smaller KE unit with another pally. Other than that my trebs are usually good for 2 or 3 hits over the course of the game which all together can severely damage one or two enemy units. I get wrecked in the magic phase as power of darkness and the sacrificial dagger ensure that he can get off major spells every round regardless of the winds of magic; if I'm lucky my anti magic items last to turn 3 but by then at the very latest he's using magic to take out a unit per turn on my side. My bowmen can't kill anything; but they do help protect the trebs a bit. My men at arms also can't kill anything but they do tend to protect one of my flanks to help make sure my knights get their charge off. My knights always get their charge off; but it's never enough. Lower initiative means I lose 2 or 3 knights before they attack, and awesome DE leadership/blackguards means I very rarely break him without a double charge of both my knight units. By then it's turn 3; after 2 successful charges and a successful treb hit or two he still usually has at least 2 remaining units strong enough to wipe out my knights in the counter charge, and even if not by now his magic phase can take them out as I'll have used up all my dispels/silver mirror by now. With awesome DE leadership he can rally any broken units from my knight charges and they can contribute to the mop up. All that is a best case scenario; just as likely my trebs will completely miss and do nothing and/or he'll take out one of my knight units with some combination of lucky magic and shooting on turn 2, and I'll be even more hooped.

so, specific questions:

1) Should I always max out magic items/virtue points for my characters, or take more 'naked' heroes?

2) Should I split my men at arms into two units of 20 for use as charge redirectors, or take them as a single unit of 40?

3) Do I need to open my wallet or can I make a list with just the figures I have that can compete with the Dark Elves? If I need to open my wallet, what should I get?

I think the first thing we need is to see your list. You gave us a pretty good idea of what your opponent runs, but we need yours.

Generally, I would tell you to make out your lords HKB lord but to stay pretty light on the other characters. You have access to a ton of 1+ ASs so that gives a lot of survivability.

I would tell you to run some mounted yeoman as re-directors. They are cheap and very fast. You should also be taking a unit of two of peg knights. They guys are great at getting the second turn charge on those pesky spearmen bunkers to assassinate that sorceress.

As for the trebs, you need them. Consider taking some bowmen with stakes for added protection for your trebs. Just repeatedly target his sorceress' bunker until you kill enough so she doesn't get a LOS.

For magical defense, you might want to consider taking a feedback scroll. That could really ruin a DE sorceress' day when she six dices something.

Hope some of these ideas work for you, but get us your list.

Dan

Thanks for the reply;

My list is simple and basically unchanging at those points given my models restrictions.

I run both a lord and a lvl 4 prophetess. The lord is an HKB lord with Sword of Strife, gromril helm, and potion of foolhardiness. The prophetess has the silver mirror by default, and I experiment wth other anti-magic items such as the feedback scroll, the hex scroll, and so on, to no great effect so far. Next up I'm trying her with the wand of stability and that item that does something when you successfully dispel spells, I forgot which and don't have my list or book handy at the moment.

Heroes, I take the paladin BSB of course; banner of swiftness and virtue of the joust.

A lvl 1 damsel with a dispel scroll and chalice of malfleur for dispel dice.

Another paladin to lead my knights errant, this worthy gentleman takes the virtue of the ideal, the enchanted shield, and a potion.

Then I have my 8 knights of the realm; lord, bsb, and prophetess go here, with a banner of chalons.

8 knights errant with my other pally and the errantry banner

40 men at arms with the damsel.

two groups of 16 bowmen, one skirmishing and 1 with stakes. I'd take both skirmishing if I could, so they can easily turn to face and shoot flankers. The bowmen guard my two trebs.

I'll bring out the pegs next time too. I need to anyways to get up to a legal points limit. I don't see how they can assassinate her sorc though; he puts that item on her with the reverse ward save thingy that makes it basically impossible to kill her. His other sorc, the lvl 2 one with the crossbows is killable, but if I look like I might be able to do that he buffs the unit with his cauldron anyway. He also puts that unit in the middle of army, the most protected location. I could try to treb it of course but trebs aren't going to wipe it out or even make it break when it's sitting beside his cauldron bsb, and if the unit isn't wiped out it's wasted treb hits since it's mainly just a bunker for that sorc anyway.

I wouldnt bother with skirmishing bowmen, stake them in and improve their odds to hit by not moving. It will take till turn 2 or 3 before he can really damage them where as with skirmish bowmen he can start hurting them 2nd turn usually. Maybe go with a power lord that can force his characters to challenge and get wrecked.

234 pts, lord - Shield, gauntlet of the duel, armour of agilulf, sword of swift slaying, virtue of heroism, warhorse, knight's vow.

This hero forces all challenges to be accepted, ASF, WS10, HK Blow. I'm not sure how he structures his units and how many characters he takes but it can be pretty deadly.

The M@A will do great against spearmen, just try to avoid the corsairs. They are a good tarpit unit against something like C1 Knights, but it will result in a dead damsel. make sure you are taking lore of life with the prophetess at the very least though you may want all casters to have it just to optimize ressurection abilities.