Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A friend of mine and I were talking last night about how Biker Nobs hold up under the lens of the math hammer.
Specifically, compared to other "hard" units. For example. He was saying that the typical Terminator is a much better value and much more effective.
I don't have the math skills to do an actual comparison.
So, how does a Nob biker hold up compared to some other units in terms of effectiveness per point?

That's a really hard question to answer, because they're different.

Being on bikes, they're far more mobile than most deathstars (paladins, for example). And, they've got a lot of firepower as a backup, should assault not be an option.

So, I think you need to define the parameters of your competition a bit better. Head-to-head in an equal points battle against TH/SS terminators, they'd probably lose - but they're fast enough that they don't need to take that fight, they can shoot up those terminators for a few turns, taking no damage in return...

Good point.
Also, your new avatar is awesome.

This can certainly be done. For comparison, we're talking about 10 terminators compared to 6 nob bikers (with a bunch of upgrades, including a painboy).

So, for durability, compare them to a variety of weapons, by how many hits it takes to wipe the squad.

Bolters:

Nobs - 136 hits
Tac - 120 hits
Ass. - 120 hits

Plasmaguns:

Nobs - 43 hits
Tac - 18 hits
Ass. - 36 hits

So, in the durability camp, we clearly see the nob bikers beating out their terminator compatriots. This isn't surprising as the orks have more wounds (12 compared to 10), and they have +1 T (thanks to the bike), and they have a permanent 4+ cover save (likewise), and they have FNP from the painboy.

As for killing power, this one is a little bit tricky. The main problem is that nob bikes aren't a good analogue to assault terminators as the nobs will ALWAYS have their big shootas that you have to pay for.

Naturally, they're not as good in close combat, and in a direct matchup. the nobz would use their bikes to stay 18" away and just shoot the termies to death, as 6 nob bikers are going to lose badly to its points in THSS (even with the charge, we're talking about the termies coming out with at least 3 or 4 guys)

Really, the better analogue, then, is tactical termiantors.

Assuming that nobody gets the charge, the nobz are going to throw down 4 of them, and the termies are going to only punch 3 to death, with one left wounded. In the next turn, the ork player is going to throw down 3 more and the termies are going to respond by finishing off the third guy and downing a 4th. The battle closes out pretty close, with likely a single terminator or two facing off against the painboy for a win for the marines.

Of course, you should always assume that nob bikers are going to be getting the charge against tac terminators. Throw in shooting their dakkaguns first, and it's not even close.

So, to summarize. Nob bikers are a bit more durable than THSS terminators, and their somewhat worse in a direct matchup (but the nobz are much better against weaker infantry units), and are infinitely better at shooting. Compared to regular terminators, they are a fair bit more survivable, and they're better at shooting, and they're about equal against each other in close combat (and the bikes are much better against weaker infantry units).

But all of this misses some other things as well. For example, the nobz are on bikes. This gives them a HUGE mobility boost over foot terminators. Also, with a warboss, those nobz are scoring units, which the terminators aren't, which is rather a big deal.


Oh, I just realised I did the math wrong. I forgot that FNP works against the powerfists as nob bikers are now just flat-out T5. A single klaw nob against a single THSS terminator then looks like.

Nob - 3 attacks, 2 hits, 1.66 wounds, .55 kills
Term - 2 attacks, 1 hit, .84 wounds, .56 after invul, and .37 after FNP

As you see, one on one (assuming the things like painboy and the wauugh banner in the nobz squad), the nob will beat the terminator handily, as it puts out 50% more damage, and has 100% the wounds. The only thing that makes it close is that, for their points, you can only afford a couple of klaws. Perhaps it's not so one-sided for the thunder hammer termies as I'd thought.


Actually, if the nobz get the charge, they BEAT their points in THSS termies more often than they dont. In any case, everything put together, nobz are clearly better.

That was an awesome breakdown sir. Thank you very much.

Oh, I also forgot that the nobz shooting is at S5, which means it can do very unfortunate things to AV10/11 at range. The best part is that their shooting is only halved against fliers. 6 nobz should be getting about 3 hits on a flier per round of shooting, which, at S5 means you're likely taking off at least 1HP per time you shoot at it, with a chance of doing more with a penetrating hit. Supported by another bike mob or some lootaz, they're throwing down one of the flimsier versions of fliers every turn.

... and they can boost under the flier, which will prevent them from being targeted in return...

Oh, and bikes also get hammer of wrath. I completely forgot to include this in my calculations.

Yeah I was going to chirp in the nob bikers eat TH/SS terminators more often than naught!

Only thing that I have encountered that ever ate my 6 bikers + warboss' lunch was reclusiarch + 8 DC with 4 power swords getting charge... So many attacks/re-rrolls/ap3 wounds...

Granted I've never got play against GK/Dark harliestar/Tyranids so limited exp.

I've had Nob Bikes eat my SW tundercalv with a wolf lord to pieces.

I had 5 remaining bloodcrushers take their lunch money.

So their a good hammer unit, but not an auto-take.

Good lord I knew nob bikers were tough but I didn't realize they're THAT tough. My god, could you imagine that math if LoS was still the same and they could still pull wound shenanigans.

Also, I'll echo the statement that their dakkaguns are insane. First time I ever used warbikers, I got rear armor on a leman russ. Av 10 vs 6 dakkaguns. It was beautiful. Then they've got the power klaws, the painboy (who can really slap around MC's surprisingly) and 2 big choppas, they can crush most units with ease. You can even give em kombi skorchas to roast hordes if you see those armies a lot. Then they've got fleet built in, and can move 12" and still assault, or flatout another 12" if they need to. They're like the holy trinity of orkz units. They're shooty as hell, choppy as hell, and fast as all get out. I can't wait to get my first nob biker unit on the table. it shall be glorious

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Good lord I knew nob bikers were tough but I didn't realize they're THAT tough. My god, could you imagine that math if LoS was still the same and they could still pull wound shenanigans.

Also, I'll echo the statement that their dakkaguns are insane. First time I ever used warbikers, I got rear armor on a leman russ. Av 10 vs 6 dakkaguns. It was beautiful. Then they've got the power klaws, the painboy (who can really slap around MC's surprisingly) and 2 big choppas, they can crush most units with ease. You can even give em kombi skorchas to roast hordes if you see those armies a lot. Then they've got fleet built in, and can move 12" and still assault, or flatout another 12" if they need to. They're like the holy trinity of orkz units. They're shooty as hell, choppy as hell, and fast as all get out. I can't wait to get my first nob biker unit on the table. it shall be glorious

^this



I love these buggers. I got lucky and wrecked a ghost ark last night with same situation.

Not to mention... Tough as nails... unless you facing S10 deny cover pie plates ... which i dont know what even brings that as I'm too noooooob

Ty for that ailaros!

Nobz on bikes are amazing in 6th ed. While it was true that TH&SS mulched Biker Nobz in CC that is not the case anymore.

One thing to add, which I don't think has been mentioned yet...Nob Bikers are normally scoring units. That's worth a little bit

Also, low-AP weaponry means nothing to the bikers. Most people rely on their plasma guns/meltaguns/lascannons/missiles to deal with heavy infantry. Strength 9 AP 2 shots might as well be Strength 7 AP 6.

Oddly enough, I actually think the Nob Bikers are weaker against small arms fire. It's very strange and I would have thought the opposite...but look at basic bolters.

It takes 120 bolter hits to wipe 10 terminators (60 wound, 10 failed saves).
But it only takes 108 bolter hits to kill 6 nob bikers (36 wound, 18 failed 4+ cover, 12 failed after FnP).

I think you forgot to add in the benefits of Waaagh Banners allowing the Nobz to all hit on 3+ rather than 4's against termies

this is HUGE and here is a pure assualt breakdown (on average of 100 rolls)

3+ to hit [67 hits]
2+ to wound (unless painboy) [53 wounds]
2+ armor /or 3+SS to negate [8 failed saves/ 17 failed saves] (12.5 % lethality or 17% = 14.75% lethality on average with a nob in the squad)

meanwhile termies need
4+ to hit [50 hits]
2+ to wound [42 wounds]
5+ invuln [28 failed saves] AND 5+ FNP to negate [18 failed saves] (this boils down to a slightly more productive 18% lethality on average when using TH/SS against Nobz)

As you can see the vast advantages the nobz get against such a hardy unit is mobility, gunfire being pretty accurate and of course hammer of wrath. In fact the biggest advantage in my opinion when i looked over these numbers was the fact that it was equal attack #'s for an over all lethality but nobz always have 4 attacks on the charge and terminators only have 3 when you boost the 14.75% by the over all 25% advantage since we are striking on BETTER or same Initiatives here this actually pushes the overall lethality of the unit to... 18.44% a slight weigh in favor to nobz which I would say is more or less identical to be honest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Siphen wrote:
One thing to add, which I don't think has been mentioned yet...Nob Bikers are normally scoring units. That's worth a little bit

Also, low-AP weaponry means nothing to the bikers. Most people rely on their plasma guns/meltaguns/lascannons/missiles to deal with heavy infantry. Strength 9 AP 2 shots might as well be Strength 7 AP 6.

Oddly enough, I actually think the Nob Bikers are weaker against small arms fire. It's very strange and I would have thought the opposite...but look at basic bolters.

It takes 120 bolter hits to wipe 10 terminators (60 wound, 10 failed saves).
But it only takes 108 bolter hits to kill 6 nob bikers (36 wound, 18 failed 4+ cover, 12 failed after FnP).

this is true, the more saves you make the unit make the faster they will fail those 4+'s and FNP

Good gravy, I see my paycheck dwindling before my eyes!

Why? If you've got a couple of spare bits from boyz boxes to build additional nobz, all you need is warbiker boxes (already come with two nob torsos and big choppas). And that's only the official way of doing it, even a half-assed search here on dakka should provide you with dozens of beautiful conversions.