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there has been a lot of talk about primarchs and space marines changing the course of history and of course a lot of "what if's" it was a different primarch or what if this marine character had not done this...

however in the HH books there is a lot of characters who are not super human warriors i.e remembrancers, Mechanicum adepts, gaurdsmen, psykers... etc

But who do you think played the most important part in the HH or who was your favourite and why? out of all of the non Adeptus Astartes characters?

E40KG

I'll go with Malcador the sigilite, he provided good advice to the emperor, and without him, there would be simply no imperium.

Kaisan wrote:
I'll go with Malcador the sigilite, he provided good advice to the emperor, and without him, there would be simply no imperium.

Yeah..Malcador is pretty much the undisputed most important non-Astartes character in the Horus Heresy. It would take some research just to find all of the important things he did during the Heresy. Help found the Grey Knights and being the first to be sacrificed on the Golden Throne for the Emperor just to name a few.

I'll third Malcador the Sigilite, being the first grand master of assassins is also cool although not his best achievement.

Euphrati Keeler - without her the warning would not have got out about istavan, there would be no first saint and hence no church and no grey knights.

The Emperor.

Just Dave... you got a point there.

Haha, I guess the Emperor isn't a Space Marine is he? He is above them. I'm pretty sure OP meant regular humans, but yeah.

Hawser (possesed) and Keeler (I still wonder what the feth is she)...

You can't forget Ollanius Pius

Malcador or possibly the traitor Fabricator General of Mars.

 Just Dave wrote:
The Emperor.

Yup. My thoughts when I read the title

Another vote for Malcador

Malcador, the bird that become the keeper of the dragon or whatever it was, Pius of course but will interesting on how the HH books progress him and do we find out what exactly he is?

There is a few but such a large event could not have been avoided by one person

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
Euphrati Keeler - without her the warning would not have got out about istavan, there would be no first saint and hence no church and no grey knights.

I was actually thinking Keeler! but Malcador is a good one... however I always thought that most of his big actions DURING the HH were all a result of big things happening... unlike Keeler who as mentioned previously allowed a warning to be given! a pretty damn important one..

hmmmm...

Without Keeler, Garro and company would of of never founded the Grey Knights because he would have died at Istavan.

No warning proberly would have resulted in no proper resistance against Horus and the scattered Legions to be picked off one by one.

Without the Emperor cult the Imperium would of never of lasted 10,000 years ( yes it was about before her but would of never flowered without her)

No warning, no Grey Knights, no cult = no Imperium

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
Without Keeler, Garro and company would of of never founded the Grey Knights because he would have died at Istavan.

No warning proberly would have resulted in no proper resistance against Horus and the scattered Legions to be picked off one by one.

Without the Emperor cult the Imperium would of never of lasted 10,000 years ( yes it was about before her but would of never flowered without her)

No warning, no Grey Knights, no cult = no Imperium

All good points, but...

The Emperor.

 Just Dave wrote:

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
Without Keeler, Garro and company would of of never founded the Grey Knights because he would have died at Istavan.

No warning proberly would have resulted in no proper resistance against Horus and the scattered Legions to be picked off one by one.

Without the Emperor cult the Imperium would of never of lasted 10,000 years ( yes it was about before her but would of never flowered without her)

No warning, no Grey Knights, no cult = no Imperium

All good points, but...

The Emperor.

Very true... but I was aiming more towards humans not the God-Emperor haha

but in all fairness we all know who caused and ended the HH

Chuck Norris

We are all just pawns

E40KG


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
Without Keeler, Garro and company would of of never founded the Grey Knights because he would have died at Istavan.

No warning proberly would have resulted in no proper resistance against Horus and the scattered Legions to be picked off one by one.

Without the Emperor cult the Imperium would of never of lasted 10,000 years ( yes it was about before her but would of never flowered without her)

No warning, no Grey Knights, no cult = no Imperium

Totally Agree!!! *Applauds*

E40KG

Thanks, sorry if I killed your thread I called it as I see it/read it....anyway I could be wrong as I'm no fluff master and totally crap at spelling so could never be one.

The most important character who is not an Astartes is one understated fellow, who GW have retconned a few times and whom has had the one superb thing about him stripped away in the BL novels, is Ollanius Pius.

Originally the fight between The Emperor & Horus took place on Terra, within the Imperial Palace. As The Emperor & Horus fought back and forth, a lone Imperial Army soldier entered the room. At this point Horus struck the Emperor down. That lone Imperial soldier didn't falter, didn't run, didn't panic. He put his human self, with his standard issue weapons and equipment, in front of the renegade Primarch. He planted himself between this super-human and his Emperor.
Horus obliterated him, destroying him utterly and entirely, but the sacrifice of Ollanius Pius was important for two reasons;
- It distracted Horus from the Emperor for the few moments the Emperor needed to strike Horus down
- It showed the Emperor how far his Son had fallen, that he would destroy a human so viciously and with such contempt, that he had to destroy his Son.

Without Pius performing that sacrifice the Imperium would have fallen there and then, the Emperor would have been destroyed by his favored Son and humanity would have been in the grasp of the Ruinous Powers.

The problem is that apparently they've changed Pius once again into something that removes everything that was awesome about him - a normal human, a regular soldier of the Imperial Army, who found himself in a room with two super-humans bashing each other and when his Emperor falls he does what the Imperial Army & the Imperial Guard have always done - he held the line.
With changing him to a Terminator & then a Custodes and now some essentially immortal git, it robs Pius of that ordinary human doing something super-human.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
The most important character who is not an Astartes is one understated fellow, who GW have retconned a few times and whom has had the one superb thing about him stripped away in the BL novels, is Ollanius Pius.

Originally the fight between The Emperor & Horus took place on Terra, within the Imperial Palace. As The Emperor & Horus fought back and forth, a lone Imperial Army soldier entered the room. At this point Horus struck the Emperor down. That lone Imperial soldier didn't falter, didn't run, didn't panic. He put his human self, with his standard issue weapons and equipment, in front of the renegade Primarch. He planted himself between this super-human and his Emperor.
Horus obliterated him, destroying him utterly and entirely, but the sacrifice of Ollanius Pius was important for two reasons;
- It distracted Horus from the Emperor for the few moments the Emperor needed to strike Horus down
- It showed the Emperor how far his Son had fallen, that he would destroy a human so viciously and with such contempt, that he had to destroy his Son.

Without Pius performing that sacrifice the Imperium would have fallen there and then, the Emperor would have been destroyed by his favored Son and humanity would have been in the grasp of the Ruinous Powers.

The problem is that apparently they've changed Pius once again into something that removes everything that was awesome about him - a normal human, a regular soldier of the Imperial Army, who found himself in a room with two super-humans bashing each other and when his Emperor falls he does what the Imperial Army & the Imperial Guard have always done - he held the line.
With changing him to a Terminator & then a Custodes and now some essentially immortal git, it robs Pius of that ordinary human doing something super-human.

Don't worry, they will make a "soap opera" out of him, just wait...

Wow you live and learn, never heard that fluff before, cheers.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
The most important character who is not an Astartes is one understated fellow, who GW have retconned a few times and whom has had the one superb thing about him stripped away in the BL novels, is Ollanius Pius.

Originally the fight between The Emperor & Horus took place on Terra, within the Imperial Palace. As The Emperor & Horus fought back and forth, a lone Imperial Army soldier entered the room. At this point Horus struck the Emperor down. That lone Imperial soldier didn't falter, didn't run, didn't panic. He put his human self, with his standard issue weapons and equipment, in front of the renegade Primarch. He planted himself between this super-human and his Emperor.
Horus obliterated him, destroying him utterly and entirely, but the sacrifice of Ollanius Pius was important for two reasons;
- It distracted Horus from the Emperor for the few moments the Emperor needed to strike Horus down
- It showed the Emperor how far his Son had fallen, that he would destroy a human so viciously and with such contempt, that he had to destroy his Son.

Without Pius performing that sacrifice the Imperium would have fallen there and then, the Emperor would have been destroyed by his favored Son and humanity would have been in the grasp of the Ruinous Powers.

The problem is that apparently they've changed Pius once again into something that removes everything that was awesome about him - a normal human, a regular soldier of the Imperial Army, who found himself in a room with two super-humans bashing each other and when his Emperor falls he does what the Imperial Army & the Imperial Guard have always done - he held the line.
With changing him to a Terminator & then a Custodes and now some essentially immortal git, it robs Pius of that ordinary human doing something super-human.

Do you have a source for that version of the Emperor-Horus fight please? Is it the W40K Compendium? White Dwarf 99 (March 1998) has an On The Boil section in which Horus was banished, not killed. Slaves to Darkness came out later that year, and already had the teleport-into-the-Flagship version of the fight, which was then expanded in the short story in White Dwarf 130. (Or 131?). The 40k Compendium came out in 1999, but collected articles from White Dwarf, so the original version may have pre-dated the Slaves to Darkness version. I am not disputing that such a bit of fluff exists, I just want to work out what order the bits of fluff were published... There is certainly only months between them. I think I still have the Compendium in my parents' loft, but I have not seen it for years...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A-ha!

Answered my own question. The article in question is in WD109, which is from January 1989.

Thus, the version in Slaves to Darkness (August 1988) is the original version, and the version in WD109 is simply an alternative version, not an "original" one.

I hate it when I don't know the fluff!

Don't worry, I forget which way round it is half the time, I keep on thinking it was the Palace first and then aboard the flagship rather than there being two versions.

What is important to me are the actions of Pius, of him standing up to Horus at the critical moment when his Emperor needed humanity, in the form of Pius, most.

Woah! I didn't know the story changed that much in such a short period of time! but Pius is a good one!

E40KG