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Hello, over the last 3 or so years I've very slowly been collecting and painting a Raven Guard army. I've never actually played the game but I am coming ever so close to finishing my army! What I'm basically after is a happy medium between fluff and semi-competitive (not that I intent on going in tournaments or anything but I don't want to get hammered every game).

This is what I have so far,

HQ
Shrike 195

Troops
Tactical Squad, 10 Marines, Rhino, Multi-Melta, Combi-Weapon - 215
Tactical Squad, 10 Marines, Rhino, Missle Launcher, Combi-Weapon - 215
Scout Squad, 5 Scouts, Shotguns, Power Fist, Melta Bomb -105

Fast Attack
Assault Marines, 10 Marines - 190
Vanguard Veteran Squad, 5 Veterans, Jump Packs, 2 SS, 3PW, Melta Bomb

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad, 5 Terminators, 3 TH/SS, 2 LC - 200


TOTAL 1360


My whole idea behind this list is to:
- Have the tactical squads objective camp and break off into combat squads to hopefully get into rapid fire range.
- Shrike Infiltrates with the Terminators who then basically Runs on the first turn for a 2nd turn assault (I realise they will be in the open attracting a lot of fire but if I deep strike them in They'll be sitting in the open as well. at least this way they can protect Shrike).
- That scout squad was design for 5ed in the hope they would get a first round assault on something big.
- The Vanguard will arrive through Deep Strike and use HI to get into battle. I heard now that since you can pre measure, this has become a very Viable option.
- The assault marines are there to tie something up in CC.

That's pretty much the plan, I'm not sure what I should do with the points. I feel like it's lacking some first turn fire power. I could drop that scout squad, or load them out with bolters and another 5 marines for first turn rapid fire and put flamers on the assault marines. or drop it all together (I really don't want to though due to $$ and I did do a pretty awesome paint job on em ) and that would leave me with 200 odd points to get something that will add some kick.

Oh and is there any point is giving the vanguard vets SS with the way wounds are allocated now ??

Any comments / suggestions would be awesome.

I'd use your scout their a good troops choice i would however recommend removing the powerfist it not worth it when the sergeant has a 4+ save, given you've given them shoutguns i'd replace that powerfist with a teleport homer and use them to infiltrate a elite unit then bring in your terminator's. i'd also get rid of the assault squad or at least reduce it to 5 models Shrike with the vanguard's is already a deadly combo plus your CC Terminators seems like a waste to have 10 assault marines. As for bulking out the list i'd maybe add a 3 landspeeders maybe a devastator squad and a razorback or even predator to give you a balanced force alternativley if you are looking for some more cc power i'd add a chaplain with a jumppack to your assault squad, rather brutish combo in my experience.

If you wanna add some fluff, Shadow Captain Korvidae (FW) makes your assault squad a troop choice.

A stormtalon would add some anti-air support while sticking to the "lightning strike" feel of the army (and would look awesome in raven guard colors).

With the exception of fire warriors and guardsmen, anything you're going to fight in CC is probably going to eat your squad of 5 scouts in the assault phase they charge in, so your sergeant will be lucky if he gets more than one round of punches before he goes down. Dropping any sort of CC capability on the sergeant and replacing it with a teleport homer can really freak an opponent out if you plan on deepstriking terminators . Running a power fist and a melta bomb on him is overdoing it (30 pts on one guy!), especially if the only thing protecting him is 4+ armor. If you're going to run any anti armor gear on him, I'd suggest a combi-weapon/MB and/or taking either a heavy bolter or ML in the squad.

I STRONGLY suggest dropping the shotguns for boltguns. The "assault 2" seems ok at first glance, but the only point of assault weapons is to charge in after shooting (which can be suicide for a 5 man scout squad). Boltguns give extra range to pepper the enemy from a safer distance, ignore those pesky 5+ and 6+ armor saves where a shotgun can't, and can rapid fire to get two shots off when they're in 12".

You've got the right idea with heroic intervention being better in 6th ed.. Not only does pre-measuring your scatter range help, but the possible 12" charge makes it much easier for a successful charge after arrival (especially with Shrike giving you fleet). Locator beacons on drop pods helps too, so long as the drop pod is still there by the time your vets arrive from reserves. The pods also fit into the Raven Guard's fluff from the codex and cost only 10 pts more than a rhino if you kit them out with locator beacons. As far as the storm shields, just try and place them in front of wherever you plan on charging with heroic intervention so that they can take the shots from overwatch so that the guys with power weapons get into combat unharmed.

If you're needing 200 pts and lacking first turn firepower, you could run a squad of devastators with LCs, MLs, or PCs. Throw in a couple extra bolter marines to soak up wounds for your heavy weapons and make them less of an attractive target. Spend the leftover points on power weapons for your tactical and assault sergeants and weapons for those squads.

Thanks for your reply guys, good too see I'm on the right track! Ok so taking on board a few things, this is what I've come up with:

HQ
Shrike 195

Troops
Tactical Squad, 10 Marines, Rhino, Multi-Melta, Flamer - 205
Tactical Squad, 10 Marines, Rhino, Missle Launcher, Flamer - 205
Scout Squad, 5 Scouts, Bolt Guns, Combi-Weapon, Melta Bomb -90

Fast Attack
Assault Marines, 10 Marines, Flamer - 200
Vanguard Veteran Squad, 5 Veterans, Jump Packs, 2 SS, 3PW, Melta Bomb

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad, 5 Terminators, 3 TH/SS, 2 LC - 200

Dreadnaught, Drop Pod, Locator Beacon, Heavy Flamer -160


TOTAL 1495

Few tweaks with the Troops; Tac squads now have flamers (forgot to write that before), Scouts now with Bolters and a combi-weapon (melta or plasma). Assault squad now has a flamer and I added a Dreadnaught with pod, beacon and a Heavy Flamer.

My justification is this:

- Scouts, Dread and Vanguard are kept in reserve.
- Dread comes in turn 1 followed by the Vanguards.
- Scouts outflank when they can. The whole point of this unit is to score a cheap kill on a piece of armor / something worth more thank them.
- The assault marines are there to try and tie down a unit in CC that would otherwise be focusing on the termis or the vanguard when they come.

Biggest Problem with the Scouts is the fact that they will get shot to gak if they are sitting there on turn 1, at least if they come in with the vanguard, they might be over looked.

What are your thoughts ?

Hello,

One thought is how would you deal with flyers?

It's a very interesting list and I do like it.

Personally I would infiltrate the scouts if at all possible and sit them out of sight or in ace cover.

The dreadnought will turn up in your first turn and be isolated, once he has his heroic one shot with his weapons he will be easy prey for most enemies.

I would also question the wisdom of deep striking Terminator Assault squads (rather than rampaging them out from a LR), mainy from them being instantly exposed and not being able to shoot up any threats nearby - a plamsa and a combi plasma in a small combat squad would give you a real headache.

There's something about the list which just needs tweaking to unlock the potential; what I'm thinking - and I know I'm not right, is:

Tactical squad in the drop pod with a plasmagun and multi-melta.

Loose the dread and get more scouts; squads equiped with bolters and ML or snipers and ML. Safely infiltrate when possible or the snipers sit in your deployement and the bolter scouts get dangerously infiltrated.

Any infiltration links up with the drop pod deployment to give you a little forward base; drop pod to break up the LoS if needs be?

The assault marines sneak forward, although the enemy is likely to be charging into your deployment area so the assault marines can deal with those. Tact squad with ML/Flamer gets a plasma gun and splits into combat squads - one with sarg and bolters which is in a rhino pushing forward with the assaults and creating cover.

Termies and Vanguard deep strike.

Have you thought of putting you scouts on bikes? This will give you a spot for a second beacon, and one that can zip around the table.

Rather then MM/F on the first squad I'd double up and go MM/M.

No power weapon for your assault marine sergeant? He's one of the few guys I'll give one, and I'm a miser with wargear. I find that a 10 man squad is big enough to draw fire until it's down to have strength. 5 man squads are "harmless" enough to get ignored. So I stopped paying for the extra 5 guys and just run a half squad. You could use the points saved to get them a chaplain to lead them, or spend elsewhere.

Tactically and mechanically the dread fits well into the list. Fluff wise, he's a little lonely as the only drop asset. Not that your army needs a whole lot of help from the battle barge. Still, I might replace him with a LS squadron or a storm talon. Or put your tacs in pods as well. This is mostly a personal flavor thing. If you have no drop pods, your army could be fighting without support from outside/orbit, which is a very ravenguard thing to do.

Just a heads up, in the new FW aeronautica book there is a drop pod for dreadnoughts that they can assault out of on the turn they arrive. Methinks its 65 pts.....

Also, Jasper brought up a great point with the lack of skyfire in your list. You could drop the dreadnought and run a stormtalon or drop one of the rhinos for an aegis defense line to give you the skyfire turret.

Ive already got the dreadnaught model but it is an interesting idea though..

Here's what I've got now. I've come up with 2 lists that are very similar but slightly different.

List 1

HQ
Shrike 195

Troops
Tactical Squad 1 - 10 Marines, Drop Pod, Multi-Melta, Flamer - 205
Tactical Squad 2 - 10 Marines, Razor Back, Missile Launcher, Flamer - 210
Scout Squad 1 - 5 Scouts, Bolt Guns, Missile Launcher - 85
Scout Squad 2 - 5 Scouts, Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks - 90

Fast Attack
Assault Marines - 8 Marines, 2 Flamer, Lightning Claw - 189
Vanguard Veteran Squad 5 Veterans, Jump Packs, 2 SS, 2LC -220

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad - 5 Terminators , 3 TH/SS, 2 LC - 200
Dreadnaught - MM - 105

TOTAL 1499

I took on board a few things. Scouts now have boltguns and a ML. Added Sniper scouts. Took away 2 ASM and gave the squad 2 flamers and a LC. Took 1 PW and melta bomb away from the Vanguards and gave them LC (for fluff or should I make 1 an power axe). Took the flamer and Drop Pod away from the Dread (will doing this essentially take him out of the game ??)

List 2

HQ
Shrike 195

Troops
Tactical Squad 1 - 10 Marines, Drop Pod, Multi-Melta, Flamer - 205
Tactical Squad 2 - 10 Marines, Drop Pod, Missile Launcher, Flamer - 210
Scout Squad 1 - 5 Scouts, Shotguns, Melta-Bomb - 80
Scout Squad 2 - 5 Scouts, Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks - 90

Fast Attack
Assault Marines - 8 Marines, 1 Flamer, Lightning Claw - 179
Vanguard Veteran Squad 5 Veterans, Jump Packs, 2 SS, 2LC -220

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad - 5 Terminators , 3 TH/SS, 2 LC - 200
Dreadnaught - MM, Drop Pod - 140

TOTAL 1499

I think I actually like this list a bit more. How it differs from the one above; Scout squad 1 has gone back to being a cheap tank hunter group. Shotguns and Melta bomb. got ride of the razor back so both tac squads pod in now. Took away 1 flamer from ASM. Took away 1 SS from the Vanguards (that squad now has 2 LC, 1 SS and 2 Vanilla marines). Gave the Dreadaught a Pod. I'm just wondering now if the Vanguard won't do what I want, Kill anything I want heh.

Anyways, please let me know what you guys think.

I am kinda liking your lists, but what im not comfortable with is the lack of cohesion

For example your preferred list just above here

A dread and a tac squad pod in turn 1 and do some damage. You have some snipers and maybe the second tac squad on the board unloading a ML. Lets be honest its not really a good volume of hard hitting alpha. Meanwhile the assault squad jump into mid field.

Now your opponent have a dread and a tac squad to their front. Not hard to focus on and really hammer. Maybe they do some damage to your other units.

Here you hope for your vanguard and terminators. Hopefully you get them, but you can see that already your army is arriving in bits and pieces.

What you want is a crushing tidal wave hitting the enemy. Either as much as possible in their face, ie 6 dreads in pods, or your whole army sitting in your deployment zone unloading and daring the opponent to come get some. What I have found with marines is they can do anything you want, dice willing, so long as you concentrate force effectively and here I can see its very difficult for you to concentrate force.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW I love Vanguard. Back assault marines too but have a special appreciation of how awesome VV are.

Yeah I know what you mean. It's a fairly risky list and depends on my reserves coming in on turn 2 / no later than turn 3. There's no real round 1 punch Having said that I think I may have worked it out.

HQ
Shrike 195

Troops
Tactical Squad 1 - 10 Marines, Drop Pod, Multi-Melta, Flamer, Combi-Flamer - 215
Tactical Squad 2 - 10 Marines, Drop Pod, Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma - 225
Scout Squad - 5 Scouts, Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks, Missile Launcher - 100

Fast Attack

Assault Marines - 8 Marines, Flamer, Lightning Claw - 179
Vanguard Veteran Squad - 5 Veterans, Jump Packs, 2 SS, 1LC, 1TH - 235

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad - 5 Terminators, 3 TH/SS, 2 LC - 200
Dreadnaught - Drop Pod, Heavy Flamer - 150

TOTAL 1499

Only problem I can see is that there's still no real Turn 1 punch. Do I:
1. Not take any pods and put tac squad 1 in a Rhino, Tac squad 2 in a Razor back with a LC and send the dread in on foot.
2. Same as above but no LC on the Razor Back and pod the dread in.
Or would this depend on weather or not I'm going to DS the Terminators in or Infiltrate them with Shrike ?

Anyways, thanks a lot for the feed back and please let me know what you guys think.

Don't forget that sergeants/vets equipped with 1 LC do not get the extra attack for having 2 melee weapons. I would take a power axe instead, giving you an extra attack at STR 5 AP2. You're rolling more dice with a higher chance of wounding, it could be more advantageous than rerolls.

I strongly suggest locator beacons on both the tactical squads' drop pods. You want heroic intervention to come back them up so your tacticals can keep firing while the vets do their thing. Losing a game because your vets had a DS mishap can be very frustrating.

Infiltrating the terminators is very risky, as they aren't very mobile and a smart opponent is just going to sit 19" away so you can't possibly charge them. This gets even worse when you're playing a highly mobile army who can put even more distance between them and your termies.

The list has gotten better, but it's still very weak against armor 14 vehicles and flyers. If someone wrecks your dreadnought and ties up your MM tactical in CC, their tanks are going to have a field day. I would drop the combi flamer and replace the flamer in the squad with a melta gun. With the MM, youre only getting 1 shot on turn one and it's a snapshot. With a meltagun you've got a second shot much more likely to hit, boosting your chances of taking out some armor on the turn your marines show up. Then use the 5 points leftover to give a meltabomb to the assault squad sergeant so a third unit has the capability to take out enemy armor.

Once again, thank you so much for your reply.

I've got this now.

HQ
Shrike - 195

Troops
Tactical Squad 1 - 10 Marines, Drop Pod + Locator Beacon, Multi-Melta, Melta - 220
Tactical Squad 2 - 10 Marines, Drop pod, Lascannon, Flamer - 215
Scout Squad - 5 Scouts, Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks, Missile Launcher - 100

Fast Attack
Assault Marines - 8 Marines, Flamer, TH - 194
Vanguard Veteran Squad - 5 Veterans, Jump Packs, 2 SS, 1 Power Sword, 1TH - 235

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad - 5 Terminators, 3 TH/SS, 2 LC - 200
Dreadnaught - Multi-Melta, Drop Pod - 140

TOTAL 1499

Every unit has the chance to take out some form of armor now.

Once again mate, thanks heaps and sorry for posting the list 100 times, I just want to get it right.