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Hey guys,

So I've been thinking about starting a Thousand Sons army for a little while and with the recent release of the new codex now seems like as good a time as any. I usually shoot for 1500pts as a basic starting point level to work toward when building up a new army, so here is a first draft:

HQ:
Ahriman: 230
Chaos Sorcerer w/ ML 2 and Spell Familiar: 100

Troops:
7 x Thousand Sons (w/ Melta Bombs for Sorc): 201
7 x Thousand Sons (w/ Melta Bombs for Sorc): 201
10 x Cultists: 50
10 x Cultists: 50
10 x Cultists: 50

Fast Attack:
5 x Raptors (w/ 2 x Meltaguns): 115
Heldrake (w/ Autocannon): 170

Heavy Support:
Forgefiend (w/ 2 x Ectoplasmas): 175
2 x Obliterators (w/ MoT): 156

Total: 1498

Explanations:
Chaos Sorcerer attaches to one of the 1k sons squads, while Ahriman attaches to a squad of cultists in the hopes that he can take down (or at least seriously maim) a squad of infantry by himself. Other cultist squads act as the Chaos equivalent of Kroot and screen the shooty stuff. Melta boms for the 1k sons in case something big and scary tries to melee them. Raptors act as a rapid-response AV unit, while the Obliterators act as a more static/long ranged AV unit (or anti-infantry as necessary). Forgefiend is there mostly to try and shoot down TEQs. Heldrake tries to eat other Aircraft.

Questions:
Tzeentchian stuff (especially Ahriman) was always very costly (and still is), but I'm hoping in 6e a mostly footslogging, anti-MEQ army might be more viable. But to any of you out there who have played with the new Chaos stuff: are Ahriman and Thousand Son squads worth it?

Any other comments and criticism are welcome. Also note that I'm trying to keep this list fairly thematically sensible, which means that if you tell me to put in some plague marines I will probably not listen.

I think that your list suffers from one of the things that I was doing early on when I first got the codex.

I slapped Ahriman in my list and went about throwing in a bunch of units I thought would be effective. I think for Ahriman to be fully worth his points (since otherwise he's just swinging a few witchfire powers around per turn) you should really take advantage of his warlord trait.

Other generic lords have to roll for Master of Deception, but Ahriman comes stock with it. As it stands, if you roll a 3 on the D3 infiltrated units...who are you going to infiltrate with? Two 7 man units of thousand sons and 2 Obliterators? They'll get chewed up by anything with rapid fire or a few decent attacks in close combat. Knowing full well that you are at least going to get ONE unit that can arrive closer to the enemy, I say that you should plan accordingly.

Maybe a unit of 9 Chosen with 5 plasma guns and a combi-plasma/power axe or some similar loadout in an infiltrating rhino. Sure this is a relatively expensive unit, but that's SIX plasma guns in ONE squad. Imagine two or three of those bearing down on your enemy. Perhaps 9 of them isn't exactly points-efficient, but I know I'd be scared if a few of those units arrived on my doorstep. Throw Ahriman into the unit (throw infiltrate on him too?) for more nasty surprises when they show up.

Otherwise, I think the list seems a bit random. It wants to be different things at the same time. Units of 10 cultists might be spammy but they'll inevitably die to anyone who decides to give them a dirty look and a cough in their direction. Maybe beef them up by dropping the raptors or spend the points on more power armor or heavy support.

Unluckily, Tzeenrch still is the least powerful mark and god, now even having the worst discipline, but being all-round a little better than last codex.

For your list, i would suggest taking a 3rd level on the sorcerer, because for only 25 points you get another roll on the disciplines and another warp charge.
Also, don't use 5 raptors with 2 meltas, they will probably die after deep striking without having killed anyone, instead take 3 terminators with combi melta with a chainfist on the champ! They will resist a little bit more and they will also be a major threat for nearby vehicles with their chainfist.

I wouldn't take the Helldrake with Autocannon, 170 points for a little bit of not very good anti air seem like a waste. Maybe take the flamer and an aegis with TL autocannon, using the aegis to keep the cultists on an objective safe with a TASTY 2+ cover!

Also i think you need more anti vehicle, maybe don't take a Forgefiend and use a Autolas or FullLas predator, using the points for the aegis and the sorcerer of 3rd level.

The warlord trait (master of deception) nominate up to d3 INFANTRY units in your army before deployment those units gain the infiltrate special rule although the chosen in the rhino idea is a good idea the rhino is a waste of points bc you can only infiltrate the infantry unit not the infantry and the dedicated transport I'd go with something like 5 man squad of chosen all plas I would also consider dropping 1 squad of 10 cultists and bulking the other 2 up it will b cheaper and you won't concede a point for 1st blood as fast

 Bonkz wrote:
The warlord trait (master of deception) nominate up to d3 INFANTRY units in your army before deployment those units gain the infiltrate special rule although the chosen in the rhino idea is a good idea the rhino is a waste of points bc you can only infiltrate the infantry unit not the infantry and the dedicated transport

If a unit has Infiltrate, so does its Dedicated Transport.

^ That's right.

If you roll a 3 you can stuff Ahriman in one of the Rhinos if you had them, while the Level 2 Sorcerer tries to put Telepathy spells on stuff in your deployment zone. Forgefiend with Invisibility is fun. Shriek on any terminators deepstriking near your cultists is just as fun.

Oh, and I think the Baleflamer is a winner for the Helldrake. Mine is doing juuuust fine.

@GameFreak975:
You bring up a good point; I had forgot about Master of Deception which really is pretty sweet. You don't think that infiltrating one/both of those 1k sons units (with the HQs attached) would be dangerous enough? I suppose if you think they will need more protection I could get rhinos for them too and infiltrate those. I'm also thinking that I had probably too many useless cultists.

@Meriados:
What exactly do you mean by an aegis? I'm not seeing anything by that name in the codex. Also, what would you suggest for anti-air?

Another general question: what's the opinion on Daemon Princes in the new codex? They seem really expensive but have a pretty good statline; plus I like the idea of playing around with a Flying Monstrous Creature.

They are fun and powerful but unless you have a LOT of cover or get really lucky they will just get killed, so over priced.

Aegis Defense Line, Main rule book with Quadgun for 100 points total. S7 AP 4 TL range 36... and interceptor does alright with flyers.

Hey all,

So I've thought over the list a bit more and come up with an updated version:

HQ:
Ahriman: 230
Chaos Lord (Power Axe, Sigil, Disc of Tzeentch, MoT, Melta Bombs, Vet. of Long War): 160

Troops:
6 x Thousand Sons: 173
7 x Thousand Sons: 196
11 x Cultists: 54

Elites:
5 x Chosen (5 Meltaguns): 140
>> Dedicated Transport: Rhino: 35

Heavy Support:
5 x Havocs (4 x ML w/ Flakk): 175
Forgefiend (2 x Ectoplasmas): 175
2 x Obliterators (MoT, Vets of the Long War): 162

Total: 1500

The Lord will (almost) always infiltrate and start flying around wrecking things; if I'm going first, he'll infiltrate alone, and if I'm going second, he'll infiltrate with the cultists for protection. At T5 and 3+/3++ I'm hoping that he should be able to survive well enough to do a lot of damage.

I'm not crazy about the idea of fortifications, so I put in Havocs to act as anti-air; plus, they can help take down basically anything else (especially hordes). Chosen act as additional anti-vehicle.

Also, Ahriman now attaches to the 6-man thousand sons squad and possibly infiltrates, depending on the Master of Deception roll.

I like this list a lot better and it feels like it's got a lot more dangerous elements packed in. What do you guys think?

Good stuff.. I think your Troops took a tiny hit compared to the previous list but for 1500pts, it should be fine.

I love how Master of Deception works now that I was thinking about it a little more. Basically you can always get an HQ infiltrating with a unit.

Sparta kick.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Bonkz wrote:
The warlord trait (master of deception) nominate up to d3 INFANTRY units in your army before deployment those units gain the infiltrate special rule although the chosen in the rhino idea is a good idea the rhino is a waste of points bc you can only infiltrate the infantry unit not the infantry and the dedicated transport

If a unit has Infiltrate, so does its Dedicated Transport.

This is true.

However, Ahriman doesn't give any unit Infiltrate. The Warlord Trait says that d3 infantry units infiltrate. This means that they simply are allowed to use the infiltrate rules, but not actually have them (and not confer them). That's the way I read it at least, and the way I'll play it.

Don't take this as rude, but you read it wrong- d3 infantry units straight up "have" the Infiltrate USR.

Yes, it is as good as it seems.

Gaining the rule is the same as havin' it.

 Brometheus wrote:
Don't take this as rude, but you read it wrong- d3 infantry units straight up "have" the Infiltrate USR.

Yes, it is as good as it seems.

Gaining the rule is the same as havin' it.

Nothing you said was rude, so don't worry. I don't have my codex at hand, so I had to google search, and the picture of the reference sheet that came up said that units "can Infiltrate", not that they get the rule. That's the way I remember reading it too. If the main page that actually states the trait in detail says they get the rule, then nevermind. If it doesn't, then my original statement stands.

As far as the list goes, I feel you might be lacking a little something - either numbers or "oomph" - and the Forgefiend and the single Rhino seem out of place. I think dropping them for an Autocannon Havoc squad and another Obliterator might worth a shot. The Chosen can still be a very viable choice for an Infiltrating unit. Alternatively, a CSM squad with IoVengeance would be a nice option to hold the back line as well.

Any way you can get a ranged weapon for the Lord? I feel like Infiltrators should have a solid shooting option their first turn. Maybe give him the Brand?

General_Tso wrote:

The Lord will (almost) always infiltrate and start flying around wrecking things; if I'm going first, he'll infiltrate alone, and if I'm going second, he'll infiltrate with the cultists for protection. At T5 and 3+/3++ I'm hoping that he should be able to survive well enough to do a lot of damage.

The Lord will not be able to infiltrate as his unit type becomes jetbike. Only infantry can infiltrate using the master of deception trait.

Good feedback from previous posters but I just wanted to give the idea of maybe having a Terminator unit to infiltrate? I usually always use a 9 man Terminator unit because I had some sweet TS rubric terminator conversions.

I think that they add a lot to TS because they soak up a lot of fire that would otherwise be directed at your other TS units in Rhinos and can provide some nice CC support. In my meta, there are a lot of Necron players and the 2+ save comes in handy from all of that gaus shooting and they can tie wraiths up nicely while the rest of your army advances.

I personally think Havocs are a bit too expsneive with flak but perhaps you can give some feedback from some test games to see how your Havocs and Forgefiend do. I, personally, am dying to try out the Hell-drake as it helps us deal with hordes quite well.

I would consider dropping the Chaos Lord for another sorcerer with 3 powers and roll on teleptahy, getting Hallucination or Invisibility adds A LOT to your army.

I tossed around an idea with biker unit modeled to be riding discs and if invisibility is cast on them they have a 2+ cover save just for moving! (5+ jink and +3 from stealth/conceal).

Ok, final list update, back to 2 sorcerers:

HQ:
Ahriman: 230
Chaos Sorcerer (ML 3, Terminator Armor, Veteran of the Long War): 140

Troops:
5 x Thousand Sons: 150
5 x Thousand Sons: 150
5 x Thousand Sons: 150

Elites:
5 x Terminators (Chainfist, 2 x PF): 183

Fast Attack:
3 x Chaos Bikers (2 x Meltaguns): 90
3 x Chaos Bikers (2 x Meltaguns): 90

Heavy Support:
5 x Havocs (4 x ML w/ Flakk): 175
2 x Obliterators: 140

Total: 1498

The Sorc infiltrates with the rest of the Terminators and probably starts running after Terminators, MCs, and other tough things.
I was going to keep the Melta Chosen (or switch them to Havocs with the same loadout) but then had a cool idea for a Thousand Sons-style biker unit; which do you think will be more effective?

Thanks doods.