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Has anyone else noticed that the Chaos Terminators have new and special options available to them in excess?

I'm a little curious as how the rules with invuln saves go when stacked...(or if they even can be stacked..) See, terminators natually get 5+ because of their armor, but then in the Chaos Rewards section they can take Aura of Dark Glory, which gives them a 5+ invuln.. Does this mean they then have 4+ invuln ?.. It would seem rather trivial to give a terminator, the option to gain a 5+ invuln save when he already has one no? =/

On the same topic, in the Special Wargear for terminators there is also Sigil of Corruption, giving 4+ invuln.. Does this mean the Terminators would have 3+ invuln since they would already have 4+ if taking the Aura of Dark Glory? (this is purely speculation if in the case the above might be true)

All in all, this could be a deadly combination with the Mark of Tzeentch giving them 2+ invulns.... But I'm not sure if I'm simply reading between the lines...

What is everyone's opinions on this?

GoliothOnline wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that the Chaos Terminators have new and special options available to them in excess?

I'm a little curious as how the rules with invuln saves go when stacked...(or if they even can be stacked..) See, terminators natually get 5+ because of their armor, but then in the Chaos Rewards section they can take Aura of Dark Glory, which gives them a 5+ invuln.. Does this mean they then have 4+ invuln ?.. It would seem rather trivial to give a terminator, the option to gain a 5+ invuln save when he already has one no? =/

No, it means they have two different 5+ Invulnerable saves.

GoliothOnline wrote:
On the same topic, in the Special Wargear for terminators there is also Sigil of Corruption, giving 4+ invuln.. Does this mean the Terminators would have 3+ invuln since they would already have 4+ if taking the Aura of Dark Glory? (this is purely speculation if in the case the above might be true)

All in all, this could be a deadly combination with the Mark of Tzeentch giving them 2+ invulns.... But I'm not sure if I'm simply reading between the lines...

What is everyone's opinions on this?

4+ is a static value, something would need to give a +1 (Like the Tzeench Mark) for it to stack, otherwise you just have a 4+ and a 5+ invuln save, one of which you probably will not ever use.

 DeathReaper wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that the Chaos Terminators have new and special options available to them in excess?

I'm a little curious as how the rules with invuln saves go when stacked...(or if they even can be stacked..) See, terminators natually get 5+ because of their armor, but then in the Chaos Rewards section they can take Aura of Dark Glory, which gives them a 5+ invuln.. Does this mean they then have 4+ invuln ?.. It would seem rather trivial to give a terminator, the option to gain a 5+ invuln save when he already has one no? =/

No, it means they have two different 5+ Invulnerable saves.

Two different? Does that mean I can roll them seperately if I fail one from his armor, declaring I'm rolling the Aura ? I'm new to 40k bear with me XD

No you can't you just roll 1 save, its stupid but thats the way it is, its done so its easier for designers to make rules that overlap so they don't need different pages for different upgrades for different troops.

You can only ever take one saving throw per wound / glance&pen. You always use the best saving throw available.

Pg 19 BRB under Models with More than one save

You are correct in that giving a Terminator character Aura of Dark Glory would be a waste, they already have a 5+ invulnerable from the armor.

These saves do not stack unless specifically stated otherwise.

For example, you could take a Chaos Lord, give him a Sigil of Corruption (4+) and then give him the Mark of Tzeentch, which always improves his invulnerable save by +1.

Now if you also take Terminator armor, the 5+ doesn't really help you, but you can have a character that is 2+ armor and 3+ invul. Pretty nice!

Ah alrighty, that clears a lot up

So Ill just take something different from the Chaos Rewards table instead of the 5++

Still, 4++ invul save is nice to have XD Even If I decide not to take the Mark of Tzeentch...

I was heavily weighing the possibility of taking Tzeentch for the +1 to invuln, or simply getting Slanesh for the FnP bonus +1 initiative

Yeah it depends on what you are trying to do.

Feel no Pain is a great rule which, by the way, does not technically count as a Saving throw and can be rolled AFTER rolling normal saving throws to stop a wound.

We have some pretty nice options in the new codex, for the longest time our HQ's were limited to 5+ invul except for characters with Mark of Tzeentch. Now we get the equivalent of a Space Marine's Iron Halo in the Sigil of Corruption item, and can upgrade THAT with Mark of Tzeentch. Take that, loyalist scum!

Maybe "Aura of Dark Glory" is immune to Shieldbreaker? I'm not sure off-hand if that's equipment or a special rule.

On the summary of models that have it, Aura of Dark Glory is listed under wargear, indicating that for all choices it would be wargear still. Which means that a Vindicare shieldbreaker round can get rid of it.

Yeah. The 5+ save for Chaos Lords & Sorcerers use to be a special rule, and therefor skirt that little problem.

Guess we aren't so lucky anymore!

Why does this keep coming up? It not like we don't have SM or better yet SWs as perfect examples of multiple invulns. Wolf lord buys TDA, gets a 2+/5++ then buys a Belt of russ for a 4++ so now uses the better oft he two (the 4++) for all invuln saves. There is one benefit to having multiple invulns from wargear, vindicare assassin. Knocks out the 4++ (belt of russ or the sigil of corruption) then you can still use the 5++ from the terminator armour.

I can see it now, Chaos lords fearing vindicares buy TDA, the Aura of dark glory and the sigil of corruption. lol

 Bausk wrote:
Why does this keep coming up? It not like we don't have SM or better yet SWs as perfect examples of multiple invulns. Wolf lord buys TDA, gets a 2+/5++ then buys a Belt of russ for a 4++ so now uses the better oft he two (the 4++) for all invuln saves. There is one benefit to having multiple invulns from wargear, vindicare assassin. Knocks out the 4++ (belt of russ or the sigil of corruption) then you can still use the 5++ from the terminator armour.

I can see it now, Chaos lords fearing vindicares buy TDA, the Aura of dark glory and the sigil of corruption. lol

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How are you using wargear provided invulnerable saves when the Vindicare removes any wargear provided invulnerable save.?

You are making a common error in thinking the vindicare removes "an" invulnerable save per shot

You cant re-roll an inv save because you "have two" you use the better one. In which case would be the 4++ from the belt. You fail that you take a wound and/or die. They don't stack in that manner. This is 40K not Fantasy.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Bausk wrote:
Why does this keep coming up? It not like we don't have SM or better yet SWs as perfect examples of multiple invulns. Wolf lord buys TDA, gets a 2+/5++ then buys a Belt of russ for a 4++ so now uses the better oft he two (the 4++) for all invuln saves. There is one benefit to having multiple invulns from wargear, vindicare assassin. Knocks out the 4++ (belt of russ or the sigil of corruption) then you can still use the 5++ from the terminator armour.

I can see it now, Chaos lords fearing vindicares buy TDA, the Aura of dark glory and the sigil of corruption. lol

#
How are you using wargear provided invulnerable saves when the Vindicare removes any wargear provided invulnerable save.?

You are making a common error in thinking the vindicare removes "an" invulnerable save per shot

I read it as it removed 'the' rather than 'all', fair enough.