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pButcher +6
Conquest 19
2x Gun Carriage 9x2 = 18
Widowmakers 4
35 total points

The "theory" is that since most of my losses with Iron Flesh casters comes from my caster being knocked down by the enemy throwing my jacks at me, so with nothing in this list that is "throwable" it takes away that option. Gun Carriages will run first turn if I get to go first and if I go second they will trample then shoot. 14" Run or 10 " Trample with 12" range on the guns + 10" deployment (for going second) = 32" threat across board. Meaning anything that deplyed @ 7" and moved up more than 9" will be in danger of a direct hit. So any infantry without acess to pathfinder will probably get a bit bogged down by the 4" AOE. Conquest runs first turn no matter what and Butcher Charges something after casting fury on Conquest & possibly Iron flesh on widowmakers depending on the matchup.

On feat turn this list gets VERY nasty. PoP feat and now the Gun Carriage's attacks are sick. 3d6 on blast damage? Yes thank you. Widowmakers (if they live long enough) can be an assassination threat on feat turn as well. Conquest just gets silly on feat turn under fury. POW+STR 25 from fury, if you cast full throttle he charges or slams for free and has boosted to hit rolls leaving 2 focus to put on him for extra attacks. What I have seen in testing is opponents get a little overwhelmed thinking about 3 huge bases and take out one gun carriage but have a nice cresent shaped line of beasts or troops that I conviniently move Conquest into and use power attack "sweep". Not to mention Butcher himself on feat turn is a demi god rolling 5D6 on Charge & 4D6 thereafter @ MAT 9.

Other than low model count what drawbacks do you see that I am missing? I have thought about holding objectives, but for the most part Conquest & the GC's do a very good job of that. ARM 20 with 22 hit boxes is not that easy to crack and normally takes a dedicated force to take out. Another thing is the GC's do not get disrupted like jacks do and have the auto knock down on their hooves so normally if I charge something it is getting knocked down and then 2 pow 14s in the face to it.


The other list I will probably run is something like this:

pIrusk
War Dog 1
Min Nyss + Valchev 9
Behemoth 13
2 Gun Carriage 9x2 = 18

I have tested it and while it is not the normal infantry spam you see with Irusk it does make use of the feat, superiority, & battle lust.

pVlad can give you basically the same benefit with S&P every turn as well as making them more accurate.

Good point but unfortunately I don't own him yet :(

The first list seems to be almost completely offensive in nature. While that many huge bases on the board will cause large zones of dead space to your enemy LOS to your caster it will leave you open to small fast missile units that can thread the needle past the huge bases. Also, the widowmakers will have a hard time achieving thier role of fire support if they have to move to screen your caster from these missiles or even outflankers like Bog Trogs and other like Woodsmen.

pButcher can handle things on his own but he can still be brought down by sheer numbers of flankers or a good missile strike. A unit of Kayzay Eliminators and a wardog would give you a better charge screen and then a true missile strike against an enemy caster if the chance appears. Eliminators are super scary on pButcher's feat turn.

Wow pipboy, that is an awesome idea! I had not thought of eliminators, and correct me if I am wrong, but fury says I can put it on model/unit which would put +3 damage on their knives which on feat turn would be even more scary.

Thanks for the input. Oh and the main reason for the widowmaker choice was an added assassination threat on feat turn. 14" range, foreit movement for RAT 9 then roll 3 D6 @ POW 10.... I will have to rethink that now though since the eliminators and dog dog sounds better. Especially since with acrobatics I could conceivably stay behind the conquest with butcher and charge through it due to acrobatics.

Yes, fury gives friendly model/unit +3 melee damage. Also, add the additional die on pButcher's feat turn the Eleminators are doing P+S 14 (fury + gang + p+s) Plus 4D6 Damage on the first strike with each model and then P+S 12 Plus 3D6 damage on the second attack. If you do their special attack it is one P+S 15 Plus 4D6 on the charge. Honestly I would stick with the two attacks since you are going to get more damage output.

Once the attack is complete if you don't kill the caster or unit side step into the rear arch or move into combat with the rest of the unit tying the unit up. They have always earned their points back each turn. They wiped out an entire full strength unit of Cryx Bain Knights without taking a hit themselves because of their crazy Def. After that they charged a Defiler and killed it off in one turn. They are the best 3 point unit in the Khador Army and you can take two units of them.