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HI

This is going to be my first army in ..... a long time, iam going to get the DV pack and convert them to IF. My basic strategy will be to use Lysander and the 2 Termie sqs to deep strike and bee a spear head while the rest push through from behind, this is the main reason i dont ahve any transports i figured it would make my tact sqs out run Lysander rather than him spear heading.


HQ

Lysander 200

Librarian 150 (Epistolary)

Elite

5 man Terminator Assault 200

5 man Terminator Sq 235 (A.Cannon, Chainfist)

Troops

10 man Tacitcal Sq 200 (P.cannon, P gun, P Pistol)

10 man Tactical Sq 185 (flamer,Ms Launcher, P Sword)

Fast Attack

6 man Bike Sq 180 (P.gun)

Support

Predator 140 (twin Las, H Bolter, S Bolter)


Any thoughts? will it be a decent army?? can they survive with out transport and do i have enough firepower?

Thanks in advance


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry for spelling mistakes

also the army will total 1490

Hi
I played with a list like this and got tabled, you lack AV.

For a 1500 you have spent a lot of HQs and your pred it unfocused in its weaponry. I would either drop or strip your Libby now and swap your pred to a AC/ spon LC pred. If you did drop your Libby, then another pred would work nicely. Plus they can help a little with flyers.

You may want to swap that ML in the tact squad for a MM too.

Your two HQs are both expensive. At the very least I'd drop the epistolary upgrade from the librarian. Not worth the points IMHO. If you keep him, give him Gate and attach him to a tac squad. This will help with your lack of mobile scoring units. Another thought would to replace him with a captain on a bike. This will move your bikes to troops, and help with that.

I'm not a big fan of assault marines outside of LRs. If you are going to field lysander and 10 marines in TDA, I'd just do one giant shooty squad, marching across the table. Alternatively, drop the assault terminators for another troop pick. Two full tac squads is OK at this level, but with no transports I'd worry about them getting shot up before they get anywhere.

Your tac squads are fine. I don't give my sergeants wargear most of the time, but I'm stingy like that. I'd like to see them in rhinos, but understand your point.

Your bikes are a good place for some fast melta. Attack bikes are good to have.

I dislike the TLLC turret on the pred. Auto/Las is the best, most flexible, point efficient loadout (IMHO). Very few things deserve the attention of both HBs and LCs, so half of the TLLC/HB pred's firepower is going to be wasted every turn. Also, as the only tank in your list, this guy is going to eat every AV shot your opponent has.

If you are going to walk, start Lysander and his boys on the table and walk towards an adjective, shooting all the way. Keep the ML/F squad in their shadow, adding support. The plasma boys camp your objective, and support from back there. Possibly just the big gun combat squadded off.

Thanks for the feedback its given me alot to think about!

few questions

is the Bike sq worth having? are Assault Marines a better choice? i mainly put them there cause i thought i needed some speed and they come with Dark Vengence and i think the DV bikies will look really cool when i convert them.


To give some perspective the only unit i will not sacrifice is Lysander (being an IF player i cant resist he is too cool)
Other than him iam willing to change any unit but i would like to have ....

a termie sq assault or shooty, for some reason i know i wouldnt be satisfied with my army if it didnt have termies not sure why tho. which is best with Lysander or should i have him some where else??


if i did drop the Lib and the Termie assault sq what would be best to replace them? more Tact sq? Rhinos? buff up my shooty termies?

Lastly is Dark Vengence worth getting or should i just assemble piecemeal (i already have two full tact sqs)


sorry for so many noob questions but i dont want to start buying things and realise later they werent worth it.

If you must have lysanders and terms, this list might help. I've just thrown it together, so there will be a few holes. But it's something to work off


Captain Darnath Lysander
 
5 Terminators CL
 
5 Scouts sniper rifles / camo cloaks
10 Tactical Marines plasma gun; plasma cannon
10 Tactical Marines plasma gun; multi-melta Rhino
 
3 Land Speeders 3× multi-melta; 2× multi-melta
 
Predator autocannon; sponson lascannons
Predator autocannon; sponson lascannons
Vindicator dozer blade
 
1500

could you consider drop pods for the marine squads? get them where you need them

to get the points i would drop the pred down to AC and HB fit, 85 pts if i remember correctly

I would drop the librarian alltogether and go for another predator in all honesty


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have just done you a quick alternative retaining elements of your original list plus some refinements of my own

HQ

Lysander = 200pts

Elites

5 Assault Terms w/ TH & SS = 200pts

5 Terms w/ Cyclone ML = 230pts

Troops

10 man tac squad, plasma cannon, plasma gun, plasma pistol, in a drop pod = 235pts

10 man tac squad, missile launcher, flamer, power sword, in a drop pod = 220pts

Fast Attack

6 bikes, 2 meltaguns, sarge has fist = 210pts

Heavy Support

Predator, autocannon, heavy bolter sponsons = 85pts

Vindicator = 115pts

Total Army Cost = 1495

Agree w Nevelon

Commander Helia wrote:
could you consider drop pods for the marine squads? get them where you need them

to get the points i would drop the pred down to AC and HB fit, 85 pts if i remember correctly

I would drop the librarian alltogether and go for another predator in all honesty


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have just done you a quick alternative retaining elements of your original list plus some refinements of my own

HQ

Lysander = 200pts

Elites

5 Assault Terms w/ TH & SS = 200pts

5 Terms w/ Cyclone ML = 230pts

Troops

10 man tac squad, plasma cannon, plasma gun, plasma pistol, in a drop pod = 235pts

10 man tac squad, missile launcher, flamer, power sword, in a drop pod = 220pts

Fast Attack

6 bikes, 2 meltaguns, sarge has fist = 210pts

Heavy Support

Predator, autocannon, heavy bolter sponsons = 85pts

Vindicator = 115pts

Total Army Cost = 1495

There are a few problems with this list even though I think its an improvement. I think 2 drop pods is bad. Only 1 arrives in turn 1 and that squad gets the crap shot out of them. Always 1 or 3 IMHO. I think that CC Terminators is very solid all the time. The only thing is there is very little in this list to use bolterdrill! I personally recommend Lysander in a drop pod with a unit of 10 sternguard. They can all use their bolters with his ability and can combat squad upon departing the pod which helps to allow you to target 2 units with 1 pod.

I think bikes this addition are great and if you want to give them a whirl go for it.

I think you should never take a plasma cannon in a tact squad in a pod. Problem being with it is that a blast weapon cant be snapfired and so you cant even attempt to shoot it on the turn the pod arrives.

How about this list (I will try to add so DV models)

Lysander = 200
Tact squad (10) Missile Launcher, Flamer, Power Weapon, Rhino = 225
Tact squad (10) Plasma Cannon, Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Power Weapon, Rhino = 250
Bikes (6) Melta Gun, Melta Gun = 210
Sternguard (10) 5 combi-melta, Power Fist, Drop Pod = 335
Dakka Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolters) = 85
CC Terminators (5) = 200

1500 on the dot (unless my math is bad which it may be as I dont have the codex infront of me!)

Lysander goes with the terminators and walks toward enemy. Tacts in rhinos follows up in support of lysander or the stern who arrive in turn 1. You can even combat squad the tacts so the plasma cannon or missile can stay still and fire. OR depending on opponent lysander can come down with stern. It depends on the situation.

Bike ride up in support and attack enemy vehicles or light troops. Pred deals with men in the open and enemy weapons teams. Seems decent. Does badly vs flyers as does most marines without allies. Our new flyer is a bit over priced IMHO.

What do you think? Your the one that has to play and enjoy it!

Twiggy_88 wrote:
Thanks for the feedback its given me alot to think about!

few questions

is the Bike sq worth having? are Assault Marines a better choice? i mainly put them there cause i thought i needed some speed and they come with Dark Vengence and i think the DV bikies will look really cool when i convert them.


To give some perspective the only unit i will not sacrifice is Lysander (being an IF player i cant resist he is too cool)
Other than him iam willing to change any unit but i would like to have ....

a termie sq assault or shooty, for some reason i know i wouldnt be satisfied with my army if it didnt have termies not sure why tho. which is best with Lysander or should i have him some where else??


if i did drop the Lib and the Termie assault sq what would be best to replace them? more Tact sq? Rhinos? buff up my shooty termies?

Lastly is Dark Vengence worth getting or should i just assemble piecemeal (i already have two full tact sqs)

sorry for so many noob questions but i dont want to start buying things and realise later they werent worth it.

Bikes are good. They are fast, tough, and can pack a lot of special weapons into a small squad. Attack bikes are good as well. They get even better when you have a captain on a bike to make them scoring troops, but are fine as is. I'd be sure to have both your special weapons and an attack bike in the unit.

Assault marines often get a bad rap. Mostly because everyone else's assault troops are better then ours. That said, a unit of 5 makes for a nice, mobile harassment unit. Give the sarge some toys and attach a jump chaplain and the unit gets some real teeth.

As part of a well balanced force, I like to have at least one mobile element. This is often land speeders, but sometimes a bike or an assault squad. It's a good place to put some melta, as you need to be close to crack open tanks.

Lysander is a man of two worlds. He is a close combat beatstick. But he also has the bolter drill to make a shooty unit much better. IMHO there are two places to put him to maximize his potential. Walk him across the board in a large unit of tactical terminators, or drop pod him in with a full squad of sternguard. Try to keep him on point to take all the fire, he's probably the toughest guy to kill in the whole codex.

If you drop the librarian and the assault terminators, you free up a big chunk of points.

100 points gets you a 5 man sniper scout squad with cloaks and a HB (or ML if you prefer) One of Lysander's gravy-on-top abilities is bolster ruins: put them there. With these guys camping your home objective, both of your tac squads are free to advance.

I do think rhinos are a good investment.

Where the rest of the points go is really to taste. More tac terminators would be good. Another tank. Aegis line, or storm talon for air cover. Dev squads are fluffy, if slightly sub-par.

On the subject of the DV box. It is a good deal (assuming you split it/sell off the extras) if you need the stuff. My big problem, and the reason I didn't pick one up, is that the minis are very nice dark angels. They don't match anything in my current army, and it would take far to much effort to fit in. This is, of course, the opinion of a lazy, established, Ultramarine player. I want to experiment with a more bike heavy list, but those guys don't fit with what I have. My terminators are old, small, metal ones. I don't need more tactical marines. But for someone starting out, all the units there are good ones. And if you want to put in the time shaving swords and feathers off to save some cash, go for it.

Maybe swap the special weapons you have out for meltas maybe drop one of the characters and the shooty termies, add in more tactical marines and maybe some more anti tank

Thanks, a lot for the really great advice


after reading through your comments i have come up with a new list

HQ

Lysander


Elites

Termie SQ (10) A.cannon/chainfist

Troop

Tact Sq (10) Missile Launcher, Flamer,P. Sword + Rhino

Tact Sq (10) P. Cannon, P. Rifle, P. Pistol, P. Sword + Rhino

Fast Attack

Bikes (6) Melta Gun, Melta Gun or maybe P.Gun

Support

Predator Auto/Las


what do you think?

my idea now is to move up in rhinos with Pred supporting and bikes screening and Lysander leading the termies in and once my tact sqs deploy break the bikes away to help Lysander if not before


Still considering if i should swap out bikes for Assault Termies?
or
drop the termie sq down to 5 and maybe replace them with assault termie ss/th and replace bike with sternguard?

Twiggy you are all over the place.

How bout this.

Do you want to go attack?

Or are you happy to deploy then try and shoot them to ribbons? Your list in mort recent post is great step in this direction.

Trying to both does not work well.