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Hi,

This is a first attempt at a list, which I want to keep fluffy as possible yet semi-competitive. So strictly Tzeentch-only.

Chaos Space Marines

HQ
Ahriman:
230pts


Troops
Thousand Sons x8
w/ Rhino
= 254pts


Thousand Sons x8
w/ Rhino
= 254pts


Thousand Sons x8
w/ Rhino
= 254pts

Heavy Support:
Obliterators w/ Mark of Tzeentch x3
= 218pts



Tzeentch Daemon Allies

HQ
Lord of Change w/ Breath of Chaos
= 280pts

Troops
Pink Horrors x10 (x1 changeling)
= 175pts

Pink Horrors x10
= 170pts

Fast Attack:
Screamers of Tzeentch x10
= 160pts


Total: 1995pts


Objective holders: x3 Thousand Sons, x2 Horrors.
Anti-tank: Screamers of Tzeentch
Flexible unit: Obliterators
Flyer/Anti-flyer: Lord of Change
Psyker: Ahriman

Kind of lack CC units, but then it's a Tzeentch army, so relies on shooting and magic.

Constructive criticism very welcome, as this is my first attempt.

try to take some flamers, they are absolutely amazing.

I've used a similar list a few times:

Ahriman
9 Tsons
9 Tsons
9 Tsons
Helldrake (Baleflamer)
Fateweaver
6 Flamers
5 Horrors (Changeling)
5 Horrors
9 Screamers


Check your pts on the screamers, daemons update is in WD 391 (I think)

And your LoC is so expensive anyways, you might as well take Fateweaver.. and you don't need Rhinos because of Master of Deception and the amount of Horrors you have for last turn scoring.

On flamers and screamers:
I still don't get why flamers are amazing? I am in no way disputing this, as I have next to no knowledge of daemons.
It's just I look at screamers and they are basically melta bombs with wings that have 3 attacks each, which seems great for the points cost.
What am I missing with flamers? I thought they only have the ability to glance vehicles on a 4+? No penetrating hits? Guess that is good with most vehicles only having 3HPs in 6th edition...But surely screamers have more chance of causing more glancing/pen hits on average? I don't know as I haven't seen the mathhammer for this yet.

Fateweaver - Yeah probably a good idea, since he grants re-rolls to Daemon saves, right? And does everything a LoC does (and more?)?

I don't have WD 391 yet, but until I do: Did they make points cost higher or lower?

Thanks for the advice guys.

 FifteenHours wrote:

On flamers and screamers:
I still don't get why flamers are amazing? I am in no way disputing this, as I have next to no knowledge of daemons.
It's just I look at screamers and they are basically melta bombs with wings that have 3 attacks each, which seems great for the points cost.
What am I missing with flamers? I thought they only have the ability to glance vehicles on a 4+? No penetrating hits? Guess that is good with most vehicles only having 3HPs in 6th edition...But surely screamers have more chance of causing more glancing/pen hits on average? I don't know as I haven't seen the mathhammer for this yet.

Fateweaver - Yeah probably a good idea, since he grants re-rolls to Daemon saves, right? And does everything a LoC does (and more?)?

I don't have WD 391 yet, but until I do: Did they make points cost higher or lower?

Thanks for the advice guys.

Flamers each have a flame template that ignores armour saves and always wounds on 4+, which by itself is incredibly valuable. Their versatile against vehicles, infantry and MC's now. Once you throw in over-watch, their weakness of cc in 5th is kind of gone. Lets say you have a squad of 6, on average that's overwatch 6 wounds vs. any unit without an invul save. The only thing that wont destroy is horde, which you would have anyway with 6 templates that ignore armour saves in the first place. The ability to kill vehicles is just icing on top.

Get the WD if you are planning on using daemons, especially Tzeentch.
You have access to one of the best CC units in the game through tzeentch daemons, and one of the best infantry killers as well. Two great options for murdering almost anything.

Okay, here is my amended edited list:

HQ Ahriman
230pts


Troops
Thousand Sons x8 = 164pts

Thousand Sons x8 = 164pts

Thousand Sons x8 = 164pts

Heavy Support
Obliterators x3, with mark of tzeentch (8pts): 218pts


Daemon Allies

HQ
Fateweaver: 333pts

Troops
Pink Horrors x10 (x1 changeling)
= 175pts

Pink Horrors x10
= 170pts

Elites:

9 Flamers of Tzeentch (w/ x1 pyrocaster)
= 212pts

Total: 1995pts




Too many flamers?

I got hold of the WD today and possibly got over excited...But coupled with Obliterators I thought they could provide phenomenal anti-vehicle capability, while both are units that can also deal with infantry.

 FifteenHours wrote:
Okay, here is my amended edited list:

HQ Ahriman
230pts


Troops
Thousand Sons x8 = 164pts

Thousand Sons x8 = 164pts

Thousand Sons x8 = 164pts

Heavy Support
Obliterators x3, with mark of tzeentch (8pts): 218pts


Daemon Allies

HQ
Fateweaver: 333pts

Troops
Pink Horrors x10 (x1 changeling)
= 175pts

Pink Horrors x10
= 170pts

Elites:

9 Flamers of Tzeentch (w/ x1 pyrocaster)
= 212pts

Total: 1995pts




Too many flamers?

I got hold of the WD today and possibly got over excited...But coupled with Obliterators I thought they could provide phenomenal anti-vehicle capability, while both are units that can also deal with infantry.

How do you get 8 thousand sons for 164 points?

Pretty sure eight is 242

 Ozomoto wrote:

 FifteenHours wrote:
Okay, here is my amended edited list:

HQ Ahriman
230pts


Troops
Thousand Sons x8 = 164pts

Thousand Sons x8 = 164pts

Thousand Sons x8 = 164pts

Heavy Support
Obliterators x3, with mark of tzeentch (8pts): 218pts


Daemon Allies

HQ
Fateweaver: 333pts

Troops
Pink Horrors x10 (x1 changeling)
= 175pts

Pink Horrors x10
= 170pts

Elites:

9 Flamers of Tzeentch (w/ x1 pyrocaster)
= 212pts

Total: 1995pts




Too many flamers?

I got hold of the WD today and possibly got over excited...But coupled with Obliterators I thought they could provide phenomenal anti-vehicle capability, while both are units that can also deal with infantry.

How do you get 8 thousand sons for 164 points?

Pretty sure eight is 242

Actually we are both wrong. 150pts for 4 thousand sons and aspiring sorcerer. Then 23pts each after that. = 219pts

It still makes 1995pts though, so irrelevant.

Any thoughts on how this list would play?

Ahriman can infiltrate D3 units. So at least 1 Thousand Son unit can infiltrate near an objective. On a good day all 3 will be infiltrating. Either way, I can see why rhinos aren't strictly necessary for them so I dropped them from the list as advised.

Then we have x2 deep striking Horror Squads that can contest objectives in later turns.

I am not sure if I should break up the Obliterators into x3 single man squads? The reason I took them as a x3 man squad was so they all benefit from the mark of Tzeentch (so the 4++, which I thought would increase survivability).

Flamers will simply deep strike to where they are needed and lay down the pain on vehicles.

Fateweaver will be the only unit really capable of dealing with fliers. Which I guess is fine.

If you want it to be Tzeetch'ish, I would at least run the Daemons in their Sacred number of 9. Cutting those models lets you throw a Bolt in there on each squad which is actually really useful utility to have - I had about 20 Horrors shooting at Obliterators and the Bolts were taking them down one by one just the other day.

Love the idea of Ahriman with this army - the Infiltrate ability fits really well with Daemons.

Actually that could work out really well.

Because it would free up enough points for me to split up the Obliterators into 3 separate units, and give them all marks of tzeentch. It then gives them the opportunity to pick separate targets while they all get the 4++ save.

And also it still leaves enough points to give both squads of horrors the Bolt of Tzeentch, which gives them that one str8 ap1 shot!

It's also more fluffy with the number 9

HQ Ahriman
230pts


Troops
Thousand Sons x8= 219pts

Thousand Sons x8= 219pts

Thousand Sons x8= 219pts


Heavy Support:

Obliterator with mark of tzeentch: 78pts

Obliterator with mark of tzeentch: 78pts

Obliterator with mark of tzeentch: 78pts


Daemons Allies

HQ
Fateweaver: 333pts

Troops

9 Pink Horrors w/ Changeling and Bolt of Tzeentch: 168pts

9 Pink Horrors w/ Bolt of Tzeentch: 162pts

Elites:

9 Flamers of Tzeentch w/ Pyrocaster: 212pts

Total: 1996pts


There! Now we have a very fluffy list.

All the Daemons number 9 in each squad, the number of Tzeentch.

Also, almost the entire army will be deep striking or infiltrating. Again, that gives it a strong Tzeentch flavour.

All the Daemons deep strike, so do not count towards the 50% reserves rule in 6th ed.
That leaves us with Ahriman, x3 Thousand Sons and x3 separate Obliterators: 7 units. So the Obliterators can stay in reserve and Deep Strike if necessary. And D3 of the 3 Thousand Sons squads will be infiltrating.

Thoughts?

You might hate me for this one but I would lose Fateweaver for the Blue Scribes and then drop in a unit of 9 screamers.

Scribes go with the flamers - still fluffy and maybe moreso with ahriman and the scribes both seeking knowledge.

The reason being when only half (or less) of your army benefits from fate I think he is an overpriced flying chicken.

Just so you know, the oblits for marks are 8 points per model anyway. Cost is the same and only reason to group them is if you have other heavy support in your list.

Might agree about the Scribes but fateweaver is still very annoying to deal with.

But he is a flying chicken who can deal with flyers! Nothing else in this list can. And a Lord of Change was turning out the same price as fateweaver anyway with his upgrades. Fateweaver has fate as a nice bonus.

The Scribes are extremely cool (and as pointed out very fluffy) and I think I will fit them into another Tzeentch list - very possibly at smaller points levels - but at this points level I think Fateweaver has a specific role that no one else can fulfil, plus the very nice re-roll bonuses. I just really want the model too! Makes a very welcome change from my Guardsmen and Deathwing/Ravenwing!

I have no reason to group up the Oblits then, will keep them separate.

Think now I will start acquiring these models!

not to hijack your thread, but why do people like Screamers so much? They seem fairly good against nonMEq units, they are new or recently revamped and much better than before, but still don't seem to be that good. Mystruggle with DoC has always been the deepstrike rules and poor infantry per price. Just a tad too much randomness,
The price point wise was a a little off for mono-mark armies.

The only things your likely to have a bit of trouble against is flyers. Beyond that its a nicely balanced force there.

I don't remember it mentioning this in the FAQ, but does Fateweaver allow you to reroll armor saves on your obliterators and Thousand Sons?

The only things your likely to have a bit of trouble against is flyers. Beyond that its a nicely balanced force there.

Yeah, Fateweaver is about the only thing that can deal with flyers in the list. However, I don't play tournaments so doubt I will ever come across any flyer spam lists. Hopefully it wont be much of a problem.

not to hijack your thread, but why do people like Screamers so much? They seem fairly good against nonMEq units, they are new or recently revamped and much better than before, but still don't seem to be that good. Mystruggle with DoC has always been the deepstrike rules and poor infantry per price. Just a tad too much randomness,
The price point wise was a a little off for mono-mark armies.

Well when I first read about there updates it seemed they had been buffed in the update: They got 3 attacks and an extra wound (2 wounds each). So have a much better chance of hitting things and are more survivable. However, they aren't 'melta bombs with wings' anymore, as their warpjaws have been nerfed to str 5 ap2, so not nearly as good at taking out vehicles. So yeah, flamers just seem so much better at glancing to death things, and they can also deal with heavy infantry ignoring cover and armour saves and always wounding on 4! Like power weapon templates! So much better.

As for the deep strike rules and randomness: Yeah, but it's gonna be fun playing them I think because of this! :-)

I don't remember it mentioning this in the FAQ, but does Fateweaver allow you to reroll armor saves on your obliterators and Thousand Sons?

Unfortunately it only allows re-rolls on Daemons :-( ...But I guess that would make for some ridiculously overpowered lists, so can understand why they FAQ'd that. It would feel a bit cheese.



Now I am trying to work out the cheapest way to create the Thousand Sons, as I don't think GW are releasing plastic thousand sons after all :(