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Since the Inertial Guidance rules state that if I land on terrain or models I reduce the minimum scatter distance to get off them, could I intentionally deepstrike on top if models/terrain to automatically land safely and more or less where I want? I know it's a total dick move but it seems like an interesting rule.

No, you only reduce scatter to land safely. If you aim for a mishap and roll a hit, there's no scatter to reduce.

Also you have to first pick a valid deep-strike location and on top of models is not a valid deep-strike location.

Stroggified wrote:
Also you have to first pick a valid deep-strike location and on top of models is not a valid deep-strike location.

Citation needed.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Stroggified wrote:
Also you have to first pick a valid deep-strike location and on top of models is not a valid deep-strike location.

Citation needed.

I can see/argue that one.

Kind of a roundabout thought though, so bare with.

Deepstriking is movement, hands down no argument. The placing happens in the movement phase, so still movement. A model may not move within 1" of an enemy model, etc etc.

True. A drop pod must be placed legally in its initial placement.

As an aside, if you think you found a cheesey lopphole, its probably wrong.

Shoot. Never used Pods myself (I HATE drop pod assault) but I was thinking that this rule could be an interesting possibility for future lists.

Short of scattering off the table, there's not a lot for a drop pod to worry about. It's a pretty safe way to travel.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
True. A drop pod must be placed legally in its initial placement.

As an aside, if you think you found a cheesey lopphole, its probably wrong.

Not at all. See Mawloc for an example

The model isnt "there" until you resolve scatter, as the rules tell you it is only a marker until then, meaning the 1" rule cannot apply

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
True. A drop pod must be placed legally in its initial placement.

As an aside, if you think you found a cheesey lopphole, its probably wrong.

Not at all. See Mawloc for an example

The model isnt "there" until you resolve scatter, as the rules tell you it is only a marker until then, meaning the 1" rule cannot apply

Pg 36 "Place one model from the unit" it continues but does not mention marker. Is this a change from 5th?

However this is happening in the movement phase, the "placing" and you still have the 1" away restriction. I don't see anything to take that away.
I see where you're coming from, but I can't find irrefutable rules to back it up.

The only thing I found was that the 1 inch restriction is on moving within 1 inch, not being placed within one inch.

Anyone have any pages that restrict placing (Not moving) a model within 1 inch of an enemy?

Because I could not find any.

When deep striking there is no limitation to where you can place your initial model.

You then roll for scatter and move the appropriate distance in the facing direction.

You then deploy remaining models in base to base contact with your first model in a circle.

However, BRB page 36 ALSO states then;

"If any of the models in a deep striking unit cannot be deployed,because at least one model would land partially or fully off the table, in impassablet errain, on top of a friendly model, or on top of or within 1" of an enemy model, something has gone wrong. The controlling player must roll on the Deep Strike Mishap table and apply the results. If the unfortunate unit is also a Transport, the Deep Strike Mishap result applies to both the unit and anything embarked within it."

So if you choose to deep strike on top of enemy models and don't scatter, or scatter too little to be able to then properly place your remaining models then you need to roll on the mishap table.

If you've got more than one model and you've landed on top of (or within 1" of) enemies and did *not* scatter far enough, you'll either lose the unit or your enemy gets to place it anywhere else on the table (except for impassable terrain) .. or it just doesnt arrive until the next turn (maybe).


However, Codex : SM, page 69;

"Inertial Guidance System: Should a Drop Pod scatter on top of impassable terrain or another model (friend or foe!) then reduce the scatter distance by the minimum required in order to avoid the obstacle."

I imagine this is for the drop pod alone so if you don't scatter, you move it 1" away from the enemy model(s). But, you then have to disembark the troops inside and can't disembark any units within 1" of an enemy model without losing them, correct?

If you dont scatter, you CANNOT move as you cannot "reduce" the scatter from 0" to anything less than 0. So the pod mishaps.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
If you dont scatter, you CANNOT move as you cannot "reduce" the scatter from 0" to anything less than 0. So the pod mishaps.

Yes. I went through this step by step after writing and was about to correct my post.

In other words, if you're dropping on TOP of enemy units you better HOPE you scatter! And scatter far enough to get away from those enemies as you also can't INCREASE your scatter distance (the rules only state reduce).

Quite a dangerous way to work.

Indeed, given you can now premeasure.

Might be a brainfart on my part that I have missed this.

Someone mentioned to me I am allowed to Deepstrike an empty Drop-pod as long as I have bought it as a DT for a unit, even if I don't deploy them in it, is that correct?

Boar

Yes. Nohing requires you to deploy inside the pod

Excellent - ty. Another Drop-pod question if I may? Terminators may not be deployed by Drop-Pod, does the same apply to Terminator armoured Librarian with a squad of Sternguard for example? Obviously Terminator armour counts as 2 models, could I have 10 SG and a Termy Libby?

Thx again

Yes.

There is no intrinsic reason why they cannot ride drop pods, its just they cannot purchase one as a dedicated transport, so only ICs in the CSM codex get to ride one while wearing TDA

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes.

There is no intrinsic reason why they cannot ride drop pods, its just they cannot purchase one as a dedicated transport, so only ICs in the CSM codex get to ride one while wearing TDA

Any IC in any marine codex can ride in a DP if: 1) there is space for him, and 2) he attaches to a unit that has a DP as a DT before the game.

(Edit: I thought you meant one thing and clearly you meant "out of all the units in the C:SM codex, only IC's can ride in a Drop Pod while wearing TDA").

Wolf Guard from C:SW can also ride in Drop Pods. I think they are the only non IC's that can ride in a Drop Pod (Maybe BT or DA as well,i am not sure as I do not have those books).

 DeathReaper wrote:
The only thing I found was that the 1 inch restriction is on moving within 1 inch, not being placed within one inch.

Anyone have any pages that restrict placing (Not moving) a model within 1 inch of an enemy?

Because I could not find any.

Well placement is part of Deepstriking, Deepstriking is movement. So would the restriction apply?

Granted the rule says anywhere on the table, does that mean I can lift up a landraider and stick it under?

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The only thing I found was that the 1 inch restriction is on moving within 1 inch, not being placed within one inch.

Anyone have any pages that restrict placing (Not moving) a model within 1 inch of an enemy?

Because I could not find any.

Well placement is part of Deepstriking, Deepstriking is movement. So would the restriction apply?

Granted the rule says anywhere on the table, does that mean I can lift up a landraider and stick it under?

maybe it means just that "anywhere on the table" on top of other models is not on the table. (Totally guessing here).

and you have no permission to lift other models to place it, so no you may not.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The only thing I found was that the 1 inch restriction is on moving within 1 inch, not being placed within one inch.

Anyone have any pages that restrict placing (Not moving) a model within 1 inch of an enemy?

Because I could not find any.

Well placement is part of Deepstriking, Deepstriking is movement. So would the restriction apply?

Granted the rule says anywhere on the table, does that mean I can lift up a landraider and stick it under?

No, but you can land on top of that LR. Of course, then you have to roll for scatter. Then you follow the rules on page 36 of the BRB regarding deep striking;

"If any of the models in a deep striking unit cannot be deployed,because at least one model would land partially or fully off the table, in impassablet errain, on top of a friendly model, or on top of or within 1" of an enemy model, something has gone wrong. The controlling player must roll on the Deep Strike Mishap table and apply the results. If the unfortunate unit is also a Transport, the Deep Strike Mishap result applies to both the unit and anything embarked within it."

So you'll either lose the unit (and all embarked on it), have your opponent place it somewhere else (but not on/within 1" of enemy/friendly units) or it doesnt land and you have to try again next turn.

 Rorschach9 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The only thing I found was that the 1 inch restriction is on moving within 1 inch, not being placed within one inch.

Anyone have any pages that restrict placing (Not moving) a model within 1 inch of an enemy?

Because I could not find any.

Well placement is part of Deepstriking, Deepstriking is movement. So would the restriction apply?

Granted the rule says anywhere on the table, does that mean I can lift up a landraider and stick it under?

No, but you can land on top of that LR. Of course, then you have to roll for scatter. Then you follow the rules on page 36 of the BRB regarding deep striking;

"If any of the models in a deep striking unit cannot be deployed,because at least one model would land partially or fully off the table, in impassablet errain, on top of a friendly model, or on top of or within 1" of an enemy model, something has gone wrong. The controlling player must roll on the Deep Strike Mishap table and apply the results. If the unfortunate unit is also a Transport, the Deep Strike Mishap result applies to both the unit and anything embarked within it."

So you'll either lose the unit (and all embarked on it), have your opponent place it somewhere else (but not on/within 1" of enemy/friendly units) or it doesnt land and you have to try again next turn.

No you can't place it on the LR as the rule says to place the model on the table, not on a model. Pg 36

Yet you can place it on battlements, which is not "the table".

Sometimes it's possible to be far TOO literal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And even if you do place it ON the LR, it won't stay there, either by scattering OR by being destroyed/re-placed by your opponent OR by not being able to land that turn (Mishap table for landing on dangerous terrain ie: enemy models). So it's an irrelevant point.

 Rorschach9 wrote:
Yet you can place it on battlements, which is not "the table".

Sometimes it's possible to be far TOO literal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And even if you do place it ON the LR, it won't stay there, either by scattering OR by being destroyed/re-placed by your opponent OR by not being able to land that turn (Mishap table for landing on dangerous terrain ie: enemy models). So it's an irrelevant point.

Hey man if you want to break the rules go right ahead. Far too literal, if that weren't the case stormbolters would've been able to use special use ammo from sternguards.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
If you dont scatter, you CANNOT move as you cannot "reduce" the scatter from 0" to anything less than 0. So the pod mishaps.

Couldn't one reduce the scatter by a negative number though, effectively increasing the scatter?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
If you dont scatter, you CANNOT move as you cannot "reduce" the scatter from 0" to anything less than 0. So the pod mishaps.

Couldn't one reduce the scatter by a negative number though, effectively increasing the scatter?

As you just said you're increasing the scatter.
By all means try this argument with your opponent, but be prepared to receive a rulebook to the head.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Couldn't one reduce the scatter by a negative number though, effectively increasing the scatter?

No, because that is not reducing. Reduce =/= subtract.