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If Kharn is in a challenge and he rolls a 1 to hit, does he still hit friendly models or is it ignored?

Seeing as how a Challenge is considered to be its own combat, and there would be no friendly models within said combat...it appears that he would not hit anybody.

Or it's an epic fail and he hits himself......?

He cannot hit himself

 helgrenze wrote:
Or it's an epic fail and he hits himself......?

Me likes the sound of that!...

He does still hit a member of his unit, a challenge isn't an entirely separate combat, it's a special part of whatever assault is going on around them. There is also no requirement for Kharn to be in b2b with the friendly models he hits, they just have to be the unit he is with and within 6" of him.

If it wasn't a separate combat, wounds would overflow.
Wounds don't overflow.

But if it IS a separate combat, you can never declare a Glorious Intervention because it requires the second character to be in the same combat as the character who is already in a challenge.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
He cannot hit himself

Unless he is attacked by MSS....

 helgrenze wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
He cannot hit himself

Unless he is attacked by MSS....

Out of context and doesn't belong in this thread. No need to go find loopholes where Nos is "wrong" just because he's normally right.

IIRC Kharns roll of a 1 now does not hit models in the same unit, however friendly models in the same combat within 6" of him.

A roll of a 1 in a challenge would still kill some friendlies imo

Not sure it was meant maliciously. I should have known not to make absolute statements about 40k rules, there is always an exception ()

I personally woul dhave Kharne hit someone friendly even in a challenge, as well - he's the betrayer. He's not exactly honourable.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Not sure it was meant maliciously. I should have known not to make absolute statements about 40k rules, there is always an exception ()

I personally woul dhave Kharne hit someone friendly even in a challenge, as well - he's the betrayer. He's not exactly honourable.

I just see it as someone potentially trying to muscle in on his action or him taking out his anger in the middle of the duel.

Kharn charges a space marine captain with a storm shield As he rushes in to lunge suddenly a brilliant pivot takes place by his enemy as Kharn is shield slapped back into his own crowd with a thunderous boom. The grizzled growl of Kharn turns into a howling rage as he sits up only to see one of his own foolish clods in the way of him and the semi-circle around their battle (or maybe the berzerker was fighting for his life and managed to repulse Kharn in the midst of combat) Either way he plunges Gorechild into the back of his enemy rending him to bits and drenching himself in blood before lunging low and resuming the attack with just as much frenzy as before.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
He cannot hit himself

Unless he is attacked by MSS....

Out of context and doesn't belong in this thread. No need to go find loopholes where Nos is "wrong" just because he's normally right.

IIRC Kharns roll of a 1 now does not hit models in the same unit, however friendly models in the same combat within 6" of him.

A roll of a 1 in a challenge would still kill some friendlies imo

If this is what his rules say, then Id also agree with the above.

Might need a FAQ about this one, but, yeah... I could see him clouting one of his own with a bad swing, even in a Challenge.

 KingCracker wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
He cannot hit himself

Unless he is attacked by MSS....

Out of context and doesn't belong in this thread. No need to go find loopholes where Nos is "wrong" just because he's normally right.

IIRC Kharns roll of a 1 now does not hit models in the same unit, however friendly models in the same combat within 6" of him.

A roll of a 1 in a challenge would still kill some friendlies imo

If this is what his rules say, then Id also agree with the above.

The rules state any unmodified rolls of 1 are not discarded blase blah they automatically hit a friendly model (but not Kharn) locked in the same combat.


So no, he cannot hurt anyone with a roll of 1 in a challenge.

kenc wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
He cannot hit himself

Unless he is attacked by MSS....

Out of context and doesn't belong in this thread. No need to go find loopholes where Nos is "wrong" just because he's normally right.

IIRC Kharns roll of a 1 now does not hit models in the same unit, however friendly models in the same combat within 6" of him.

A roll of a 1 in a challenge would still kill some friendlies imo

If this is what his rules say, then Id also agree with the above.

The rules state any unmodified rolls of 1 are not discarded blase blah they automatically hit a friendly model (but not Kharn) locked in the same combat.


So no, he cannot hurt anyone with a roll of 1 in a challenge.

I'll look over the exact wording today.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

kenc wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
He cannot hit himself

Unless he is attacked by MSS....

Out of context and doesn't belong in this thread. No need to go find loopholes where Nos is "wrong" just because he's normally right.

IIRC Kharns roll of a 1 now does not hit models in the same unit, however friendly models in the same combat within 6" of him.

A roll of a 1 in a challenge would still kill some friendlies imo

If this is what his rules say, then Id also agree with the above.

The rules state any unmodified rolls of 1 are not discarded blase blah they automatically hit a friendly model (but not Kharn) locked in the same combat.


So no, he cannot hurt anyone with a roll of 1 in a challenge.

I'll look over the exact wording today.

That is the exact wording... that's why I said the rules state

kenc wrote:

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

kenc wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
He cannot hit himself

Unless he is attacked by MSS....

Out of context and doesn't belong in this thread. No need to go find loopholes where Nos is "wrong" just because he's normally right.

IIRC Kharns roll of a 1 now does not hit models in the same unit, however friendly models in the same combat within 6" of him.

A roll of a 1 in a challenge would still kill some friendlies imo

If this is what his rules say, then Id also agree with the above.

The rules state any unmodified rolls of 1 are not discarded blase blah they automatically hit a friendly model (but not Kharn) locked in the same combat.


So no, he cannot hurt anyone with a roll of 1 in a challenge.

I'll look over the exact wording today.

That is the exact wording... that's why I said the rules state

it's funny because other models are still locked in the same combat eh?

I think you're missing the most important information. The rulebook FAQ states:
"Q: Can Wounds caused by a character in a challenge only be
allocated to the opposing character in the challenge? (p64)
A: Yes."

So, even if the 1s are not ignored and he does hit friendly models, he cannot allocate any wounds other than to the opposing character.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

kenc wrote:

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

kenc wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
He cannot hit himself

Unless he is attacked by MSS....

Out of context and doesn't belong in this thread. No need to go find loopholes where Nos is "wrong" just because he's normally right.

IIRC Kharns roll of a 1 now does not hit models in the same unit, however friendly models in the same combat within 6" of him.

A roll of a 1 in a challenge would still kill some friendlies imo

If this is what his rules say, then Id also agree with the above.

The rules state any unmodified rolls of 1 are not discarded blase blah they automatically hit a friendly model (but not Kharn) locked in the same combat.


So no, he cannot hurt anyone with a roll of 1 in a challenge.

I'll look over the exact wording today.

That is the exact wording... that's why I said the rules state

it's funny because other models are still locked in the same combat eh?

No, a CHALLENGE is treated as a SEPARATE COMBAT.
Pg64 BRB Outside Forces.

Why do people fail to understand this?

kenc wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

kenc wrote:

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

kenc wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
He cannot hit himself

Unless he is attacked by MSS....

Out of context and doesn't belong in this thread. No need to go find loopholes where Nos is "wrong" just because he's normally right.

IIRC Kharns roll of a 1 now does not hit models in the same unit, however friendly models in the same combat within 6" of him.

A roll of a 1 in a challenge would still kill some friendlies imo

If this is what his rules say, then Id also agree with the above.

The rules state any unmodified rolls of 1 are not discarded blase blah they automatically hit a friendly model (but not Kharn) locked in the same combat.


So no, he cannot hurt anyone with a roll of 1 in a challenge.

I'll look over the exact wording today.

That is the exact wording... that's why I said the rules state

it's funny because other models are still locked in the same combat eh?

No, a CHALLENGE is treated as a SEPARATE COMBAT.
Pg64 BRB Outside Forces.

Why do people fail to understand this?

Ok I read it, in no way does it say it's a seperate combat. It just places restrictions about placing wounds onto the challenger and challengee.
So Kharne still kills friendlies thanks

kaisshau wrote:
I think you're missing the most important information. The rulebook FAQ states:
"Q: Can Wounds caused by a character in a challenge only be
allocated to the opposing character in the challenge? (p64)
A: Yes."

So, even if the 1s are not ignored and he does hit friendly models, he cannot allocate any wounds other than to the opposing character.

Actually I think this one kills the argument for him killing friendlies while in a challenge. Its pretty black and white here. The question I want answered now is, since the 1's still hit but must hit the enemy in the challenge, does that mean that he always hits the enemy in the challenge? A bit of ing there but think about it.

kaisshau wrote:
I think you're missing the most important information. The rulebook FAQ states:
"Q: Can Wounds caused by a character in a challenge only be
allocated to the opposing character in the challenge? (p64)
A: Yes."

So, even if the 1s are not ignored and he does hit friendly models, he cannot allocate any wounds other than to the opposing character.

And I think this answers the question.

However, some people might fall back on the old go-to, that codex trumps rulebook. Ultimately, the answer is a house rule until there is an FAQ.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:


Ok I read it, in no way does it say it's a seperate combat. It just places restrictions about placing wounds onto the challenger and challengee.
So Kharne still kills friendlies thanks

Edited by Mannanin

http://i.imgur.com/exheR.png
http://i.imgur.com/xfE6m.png

In bold, not hard to understand. Right after that, clearly states SIMPLY RESOLVE AS IF THE TWO CHARACTERS WERE NOT THERE.

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

kaisshau wrote:
I think you're missing the most important information. The rulebook FAQ states:
"Q: Can Wounds caused by a character in a challenge only be
allocated to the opposing character in the challenge? (p64)
A: Yes."

So, even if the 1s are not ignored and he does hit friendly models, he cannot allocate any wounds other than to the opposing character.

Actually I think this one kills the argument for him killing friendlies while in a challenge. Its pretty black and white here. The question I want answered now is, since the 1's still hit but must hit the enemy in the challenge, does that mean that he always hits the enemy in the challenge? A bit of ing there but think about it.

Well, he can potentially hit friendly troops while in a challenge, which could result in wounds. Now, the question is, what do you do with those wounds? According to the FAQ, Kharn must allocate his wounds to the enemy in the challenge.

kenc wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:


Ok I read it, in no way does it say it's a seperate combat. It just places restrictions about placing wounds onto the challenger and challengee.
So Kharne still kills friendlies thanks

Edited

http://i.imgur.com/exheR.png
http://i.imgur.com/xfE6m.png

In bold, not hard to understand. Right after that, clearly states SIMPLY RESOLVE AS IF THE TWO CHARACTERS WERE NOT THERE. Hurr, you are beyond bad at this.

But that's not actually what the quote says...

"...only the challenger and challengee can strike blows against one another."

This is not the same as saying that they can only strike blows against one another. Subtle difference in placement of the word "only" completely changes the meaning of the sentence. Yay for the English language. As for the second part, it is clearly in the context of other models outside the challenge trying to allocate wounds to those that are in it.

But the FAQ quote given already closes this argument. Kharn's rolls of 1 can't be used to allocate wounds to friendly models.

 Cheexsta wrote:

kenc wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:


Ok I read it, in no way does it say it's a seperate combat. It just places restrictions about placing wounds onto the challenger and challengee.
So Kharne still kills friendlies thanks

Edited

http://i.imgur.com/exheR.png
http://i.imgur.com/xfE6m.png

In bold, not hard to understand. Right after that, clearly states SIMPLY RESOLVE AS IF THE TWO CHARACTERS WERE NOT THERE. Hurr, you are beyond bad at this.

But that's not actually what the quote says...

"...only the challenger and challengee can strike blows against one another."

This is not the same as saying that they can only strike blows against one another. Subtle difference in placement of the word "only" completely changes the meaning of the sentence. Yay for the English language. As for the second part, it is clearly in the context of other models outside the challenge trying to allocate wounds to those that are in it.

But the FAQ quote given already closes this argument. Kharn's rolls of 1 can't be used to allocate wounds to friendly models.

thanks cheexsta, I hadnt seen the faq which does sum it up.

However to kenc, remember not to insult other posters and in the future posting rules helps a ton. Especially the faq which you hadnt done ...

1a. Don't say that someone is wrong, instead you explain why you think their opinion is wrong. Criticize the opinion, not the person.