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The problem me and a friend of mine are having, is one according to him, can't happen. When a flyer suffers a "Crash and Burn" result, this is what happens.

from Pg 81 of the rulebook..
"Centre the large blast marker over the flyer, then scatters...etc..etc..The Flyer is then taken off the board. IF the flyer is ALSO a transport, ANY models, WITHIN suffer a Str 10 hit with NO armor saves allowed. Survivors are placed anywhere within 3" of the blast markers final position and in unit coherency. Any models that cannot be placed are removed as casualties."

According to this, it appears there is an order of operations tailored to what happens.

Explosion > Blast Marker to 2d6 scatter > Explosion to people within > Survivors are placed.

However, my friend thinks that it should be different in the way that this happens.

As the Necron Codex descripes the Night Scythe on page 51
"The Night Scythe has a transport capacity of 15..etc etc...If the Night Scythe is destroyed, the EMBARKED unit is not allowed to disembark, but instead enters reserve.."

He interprets this..as "As soon as it is destroyed, they teleport out, and enter reserve without taking the strength 10 hits, because they are not placed as disembarking.

HOWEVER, in the specific rules of how this is done, it says that "SURVIVORS are then PLACED anywhere within the blast marker.." Meaning that the passengers had to have taken the strength 10 hits, and LIVED to be placed.

So I agree that they should be teleported into reserve (Or however fluffy ways they go about it.) BUT this is how it should look in an order.

Explosion>Blast Marker 2d6 Scatter> Explosion to people within> Survivors are disembarked But Can't So go into Reserve.

http://imgur.com/JJBo5

^^^

Picture to illustrate this with actual rules.

What do you think?

You're correct - the unit inside takes the hits.
This has been the subject of very heated debates in the past. Just warning.

rigeld2 wrote:
You're correct - the unit inside takes the hits.
This has been the subject of very heated debates in the past. Just warning.

Thanks!

There shouldn't be much debate. If you follow an ordered system, you can just follow the numbers.

There is plenty of argument against as well. You can probably do a forum search to find the old thread.
Specifically, the rule book and the codex tell you to do two different things with the passengers. You do either one or the other, not an amalgamation of the two. Codex is specified as trumping main book, so the unit is placed in reserved without any wound applied.
Notice also that Crash and Burn never even mentions disembarking, further muddling things.

Anyways, I'm not trying to restart the old thread. Just wanted to let you know its not as cut and dry as some would make it out to be. Needs a FAQ entry.

It actually does tell you what to do with disembarking. It tells you to place the "Survivors" within the area of the blast radius. It tells you exactly WHO to place WHERE. And it implies general disembarking rules.

You take the strength 10 hit, because NOTHING in the Necron specifies if you don't take the explosion result. However, in the 6th edition manual, where it says the order, you take the hit, and then disembark. BUT YOU CAN'T SO YOU DON'T. It says ALL passangers (Whatever was in the ship) Takes a hit. and the "SURVIVORS" - Implying the people that have lived through the strength hit, are then placed (DISEMBARKED) but you don't, so you go to reserves.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Disembarking, and taking the explosion damage rolls happen on different steps. I even underlined it within the picture I posted. It says the "SURVIVORS" then disembark. Meaning this is the stage where they go into reserve. They don't disembark, so they go into reserve.

You are forgetting, however, that the necrons models aren't placed, they go in reserve are not allowed to disembark. Because they arent in the transport, but merely using the portal to enter the battlefield, so they take no wounds

So instead of being placed, you are placed in reserve.

Nothing exempts you from taking the hits, so you still do.

 Exalted Pariah wrote:
You are forgetting, however, that the necrons models aren't placed, they go in reserve are not allowed to disembark. Because they arent in the transport, but merely using the portal to enter the battlefield, so they take no wounds

This is a fluff-based argument and not relevant to the discussion. Every other rules mention of troops travelling via Night Scythe refers to them as an embarked unit.

 Fafnir13 wrote:
There is plenty of argument against as well. You can probably do a forum search to find the old thread.
Specifically, the rule book and the codex tell you to do two different things with the passengers. You do either one or the other, not an amalgamation of the two. Codex is specified as trumping main book, so the unit is placed in reserved without any wound applied.
Notice also that Crash and Burn never even mentions disembarking, further muddling things.

The only conflict between C&B and the NS rules are where to place the models. They end up in Reserve as the NS rules state.
Arguing otherwise is trying to create a conflict with more than just model placement when there's no conflict there.

If they are killed in the explosion where do you place the Reanimation protocol markers? since they are not on the board when the scythe is destroyed are they placed in the wreckage? If they are placed can they in fact affect the models allowing them to be transported into reserve? If this rule can affect units in reserve... huh? In the end you have to negate RP rolls or assume that they are not actually in the ship.


Addendum: There is actually a conflict as the NS rules says put into reserve when NS is destroyed but the flyers rules state damage the unit then place on the field. By damaging the unit you are adding an extra step before "disembarking." As the active player I choose the order so I activate the NS rule first and the unit is in reserve before the damage occurs.

The only conflict is in placement. Codex wins, so they go in reserve losing RP counters.

Oh, this again?

I'll toss my vote in for the 'needs an FAQ and is not cut and dry at all' group, chiefly because there is no rules-specific reason to only follow 'some' of the crash-and-burn rules and 'some' of the nightscythes, and determining how exactly far that precidence should extend within the context of the rules has given me a headache in the past.

The short answer:
Codex > Rulebook is generally agreed upon, but which rules are trumped and which are not is hotly contested.

Taken from Lysis, a player on another form..

And lets cut the bs. Necron players are trying to get away with not taking any damage from an explosion and having a 36 inch transport at their whim. I'm not saying that thats what EVERYONE wants, however this is what clearly comes to my mind.
" I only run my local FLGS tournament scene, not any GT (yet!). If they want to argue fluff as rules, then tell them to do the following:

1) Read "Hammer and Anvil" (a sisters of battle novel where they face necrons).
2) Skip to the part where the necrons are waiting to teleport in
3) Explain that the explosion and shrapnel fly through the opened "crystal portal" and kills them.

Crunch rules: It is a transport. It was bought as a dedicated transport. Crashing flyer transports injure their cargo."

You cannot argue fluff here. You are carrying something. You die with it. It takes hits. IT IS IN THERE. You take the damage.

"Codex Wins Over Big Rule Book."
That is only in case of a specific rule is overlooking the big rulebook. It still says you take damage from the explosion..

AND THEN disembark/Go to reserve.

The necron codex NEVER exempts them from taking the hits.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is no need for "URR OMGURD WE NEERD DA FAQ TO TELL US HOW TO LIVE."

It tells you. In the fu@*ing book how you do the steps of taking damage.

You Crash&Burn>Explosion Radius, and blast Radius> TAKE THE HITS> "Survivors disembark"(But you can't, so THEN you enter reserve.

In your necron book it says "Instead of disembarking, you enter reserve."
So in this step, you enter reserve.

Monasou wrote:And lets cut the bs. Necron players are trying to get away with not taking any damage from an explosion and having a 36 inch transport at their whim

Its best not to try and assume motives. I'm a Necron player and strongly believe that they do take damage if the Night Scythe is destroyed.

Nigthscythes are the only flyer transport with different rule since they are codex based. Codex say they are placed in reserves which is what you do when its destroyed or wrecked. BRB covers all other transport flyers. Most of the nay sayers here are blinded by codex envy and necron hate which clouds even the best of judgement.

Plus asking some of these people will only lead you astray since nerry a one of them where right about anything from the last round of Faq.

It will be faq'ed Im betting on it and it will rule in the fashion as most necron players have read it. No wounds placed in reserves. Bringing this up again will only rehash tired arguments to the contrary.

My read of RAW suggests they take the hits, then are placed into Reserves instead of being placed on the field.

I would not be at all surprised to see GW FAQ it to make them not take the hits. The Necrons have gotten a lot of really nice rules and rulings in the last year.

 Mannahnin wrote:
My read of RAW suggests they take the hits, then are placed into Reserves instead of being placed on the field.

I would not be at all surprised to see GW FAQ it to make them not take the hits. The Necrons have gotten a lot of really nice rules and rulings in the last year.

Agreed 100% Man

It would suck to see GW toss them some more favoritism though.

My two cents:

From a fluff perspective (I know, I know) it seems that RAI they aren't supposed to take the hits.

RAW, however, it would seem that they do. I would still like to see a FAQ on this (and numerous other issues, to be sure), but for now, I intend on playing it as the embarked units taking the hits.

I do not believe the Necrons are intended to take the hits, but RAW indicate that they currently do.

However, the RAW is very muddled, and I would advise rolling this off with your opponents until it is answered in a FAQ.

my advice is to consult your TO for clarification, as some tourneys (feast of blades for example) say they do not take the hit, as others may allow it.

Well, since disembarking units are the one that are damaged, and the necrons don't disembark, they just go into reserve, I dont think they take damage.

 Exalted Pariah wrote:
Well, since disembarking units are the one that are damaged, and the necrons don't disembark, they just go into reserve, I dont think they take damage.

It's not disembarking units. It's embarked units.
Necron units are unarguably embarked.