Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi There,

I'm sort of stuck with what units to choose from as i don't know whether they are going to be beneficial. I'm just starting out and i was thinking of using Cygnar with Captain Victoria Haley as my warcaster and a Cyclone warjack but from there i'm really stuck. Any opinions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Check out battle college and the Privateer press forums (specifically the boot camp thread in the cygnar forums)

http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/home (Good overview of the units, but the reviews tend to be thru rose colored glasses and pretty basic)

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?7043-Boot-Camp-Mark-II (more indepth of what works and doesn't work. Some posters are more in depth, some are not much better than battle college)

This will get you a decent idea of what is available to cygnar and some basic tactics and combos. After that is is all about playing, seeing what you like and then discussing it in the various forums.

Capt Haley or pHaley is a pretty good caster with a few different options for troops and jacks.

Another quick bit of advice, for the cyclone get the plastic jack kit and magnetize it so you can at least play it as a defender as well. I really like the cyclone, but it isn't for everyone. The defender is a much better all around jack. Very hard to go wrong with a defender in a cygnar list.

I'll second the defender comment. They're one of the best bread and butter jacks available to you, heck probably to anyone.

The normal advice is to start small when getting into Warmachine. Chances are you'll lose a lot when getting started, I did and I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that started out good at this game. That said though Haley is quite awkward to use at smaller sizes without proper support where the game does turn into a rock paper scissors fest. pStryker or pCaine can also be (comparitively) beginnner friendly casters.

Beyond that? Hunters... if you can get a hold of them hunters are a must. A lancer might help too, especially Thorn if you're sticking with Haley. Other popular units include a squire and journeyman warcaster. And then it's a case of getting other bits to fill holes in your force, infantry would be a good place to look for that.

Gun mages are usually a good place to start from what i've seen of the guys i play against

After using gunmage in my Merc army, i would never leave home without them.

Ignore stealth.. and the 3 different shots... So nice

captain bloody fists wrote:
Hi There,

I'm sort of stuck with what units to choose from as i don't know whether they are going to be beneficial. I'm just starting out and i was thinking of using Cygnar with Captain Victoria Haley as my warcaster and a Cyclone warjack but from there i'm really stuck. Any opinions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

you need to be a bit more specific than that for us to help you mate.

this game isnt 40k. there is no "take this, this and this, and voila, you have a fully functional cygnar army". its more like "this is good. so is this with this. or this with that. those two things go well together." there is no "one way" of doing it. coming from a 40k background, its quite daunting to feel this sense of freedom of choice. I've seen melee heavy cygnar, lightning spamming cygnar, shooty cygnar from hell, mercnar, and everything in between, and they've all been capable.

that said, Haley is a beast. she's quite a nasty, vicious warcaster. cyclones are good for shredding infantry and controling space/charge lanes, but not nearly as handy at taking on armour. you'd need to back him up with another heavy. but cygnar have plenty tools. great access to mercs. nice, cheap effective troops, gun mages, good shooting, gun mages, handy warjacks like ol rowdy and so on.

Really, what kind of playstyle are you looking for? attrition? alpha strike? ranged? melee? jack heavy? infantry heavy? spell heavy? and so on. answer that, and we can be more specific in how to help.

Deadnight wrote:

captain bloody fists wrote:
Hi There,

I'm sort of stuck with what units to choose from as i don't know whether they are going to be beneficial. I'm just starting out and i was thinking of using Cygnar with Captain Victoria Haley as my warcaster and a Cyclone warjack but from there i'm really stuck. Any opinions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

you need to be a bit more specific than that for us to help you mate.

this game isnt 40k. there is no "take this, this and this, and voila, you have a fully functional cygnar army". its more like "this is good. so is this with this. or this with that. those two things go well together." there is no "one way" of doing it. coming from a 40k background, its quite daunting to feel this sense of freedom of choice. I've seen melee heavy cygnar, lightning spamming cygnar, shooty cygnar from hell, mercnar, and everything in between, and they've all been capable.

that said, Haley is a beast. she's quite a nasty, vicious warcaster. cyclones are good for shredding infantry and controling space/charge lanes, but not nearly as handy at taking on armour. you'd need to back him up with another heavy. but cygnar have plenty tools. great access to mercs. nice, cheap effective troops, gun mages, good shooting, gun mages, handy warjacks like ol rowdy and so on.

Really, what kind of playstyle are you looking for? attrition? alpha strike? ranged? melee? jack heavy? infantry heavy? spell heavy? and so on. answer that, and we can be more specific in how to help.

Thanks for the tough love there i think that is what my mentality is coming from 40K. i was thinking maybe along the lines of a ranged army with a few heaveys in there for defence. I am liking the looks of Gun Mages and a merc.

For a decent starting point look at something like this:

Haley
Defender
Squire
Gun mages with the unit attachment

These are all units that make up alot of cygnar lists so you can switch casters and more than likely still use them.

If you like mercs I have heard lots of good things about Nyss hunters and am looking to add a unit to my collection soon.

Otherwise you probably want to get some melee in there. You have some merc options or in faction options. For more shooting get a second defender or a hunter.

Thanks guys I'm going to have a look through their unit guide and see what I like.

If your looking for a melee unit, I hear good things about Sword knights, and with Thorn (and a reach weapon) flank is easier to pull off, or so I heard.

 DukeBadham wrote:
If your looking for a melee unit, I hear good things about Sword knights, and with Thorn (and a reach weapon) flank is easier to pull off, or so I heard.

You heard good things about Sword Knights? Where?

You wan't Thorn to remain mobile so that you can use him to get new vectors for your spells, using him to give flank to Sword Knights is a huge waste!

If you wan't melee in Cygnar with pHaley, use Stormblades + UA or the mercenaries Horgenhold Forge Guard.

I would say it depends on the caster if swordknights are good or not. But with either Haley I think you have better options of infantry.

As for thorn in combat, if you have eHaley, who cares? You can arc while in CC with Thorn. And Haley can TK him out of combat and then move 3" on top of the TK. So I would actually say that using him to gain flank is a great idea if you pull it off properly. This is all assuming that he is in melee range with the bad guys since Thorn has reach. Against non reach opponents he can just walk out of combat.

With pHaley, you can still arc while in CC, but you might have trouble getting stuck against reach opponents. But even then he has things to help with that.

So I can see both points, but it depends on how you use Thorn and what else is going on.

 Mordekiem wrote:
I would say it depends on the caster if swordknights are good or not. But with either Haley I think you have better options of infantry.

As for thorn in combat, if you have eHaley, who cares? You can arc while in CC with Thorn. And Haley can TK him out of combat and then move 3" on top of the TK. So I would actually say that using him to gain flank is a great idea if you pull it off properly. This is all assuming that he is in melee range with the bad guys since Thorn has reach. Against non reach opponents he can just walk out of combat.

With pHaley, you can still arc while in CC, but you might have trouble getting stuck against reach opponents. But even then he has things to help with that.

So I can see both points, but it depends on how you use Thorn and what else is going on.

You can arc through Thorn while he is in combat, true, but chances are that you don't wan't to arc spells at that particular unit, and then he will more likely than not have LoS blocked to his intended target.

Sword Knights would be good if Cygnar had a cheap warjack with reach that they could Marshall (Nomad / Buccaneer / Talon), but since Cygnar doesn't have any of those...

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:
I would say it depends on the caster if swordknights are good or not. But with either Haley I think you have better options of infantry.

As for thorn in combat, if you have eHaley, who cares? You can arc while in CC with Thorn. And Haley can TK him out of combat and then move 3" on top of the TK. So I would actually say that using him to gain flank is a great idea if you pull it off properly. This is all assuming that he is in melee range with the bad guys since Thorn has reach. Against non reach opponents he can just walk out of combat.

With pHaley, you can still arc while in CC, but you might have trouble getting stuck against reach opponents. But even then he has things to help with that.

So I can see both points, but it depends on how you use Thorn and what else is going on.

You can arc through Thorn while he is in combat, true, but chances are that you don't wan't to arc spells at that particular unit, and then he will more likely than not have LoS blocked to his intended target.

Sword Knights would be good if Cygnar had a cheap warjack with reach that they could Marshall (Nomad / Buccaneer / Talon), but since Cygnar doesn't have any of those...

What about a firefly: cheap, has reach, and the gun picks off a few troops beforehand

 DukeBadham wrote:

What about a firefly: cheap, has reach, and the gun picks off a few troops beforehand

Meh.

5 pts just to give Flank to the Sword Knights isn't exactly cheap. Compare it with a knock down giving Buccaneer which costs 3, or the much more durable Talon for 4 or even the no-nonsense beat stick Nomad that only costs 1 more point!

IMHO it just makes more sense to take Stormblades, +1 MAT and +5 P+S base and no gimmicks required! And of course, just like everything else in Warmahordes, someone will disagree with me and get much better results with the Sword Knights!

PhantomViper wrote:
You can arc through Thorn while he is in combat, true, but chances are that you don't wan't to arc spells at that particular unit, and then he will more likely than not have LoS blocked to his intended target.

Sword Knights would be good if Cygnar had a cheap warjack with reach that they could Marshall (Nomad / Buccaneer / Talon), but since Cygnar doesn't have any of those...

Um, you can target any unit with spells, not just the unit Thorn is engaged with. And Thorn can move around while in combat and has imprint : disengage.

I'm not saying this should be your main tactic with thorn, but if the oppurtunity is there then you should take it.

I also think Swordknights have their place. But I wouldn't call them a "go to" unit for most Cygnar lists. In general, there are alot better options to take. And yeah, it looks like they are designed to marshall a warjack and fight alongside one, but there isn't a real good warjack in cygnar's arsenal to do that with. If you want hard hitting infantry we have better options. Swordknights are more about cheap bodies.

 Mordekiem wrote:

Um, you can target any unit with spells, not just the unit Thorn is engaged with. And Thorn can move around while in combat and has imprint : disengage.

I'm not talking about targeting restrictions, I'm talking about the models that he is engaging is probsably also blocking LoS to the spell targets.

But enough theorymachine from my part, suffice to say that using an 8 pt warjack to improve a 6pt infantry unit isn't the best option IMO.

We could be here a while if we listed everything good. Even the 'bad' things have their uses. For now I would stay away from the trencher cannon, firefly, Triumph, and major Laddermore until you know the game better and are sure you can assess whether they will be good for you.

Some of the staple jacks are the defender, stormclad, and minuteman. Ol'Rowdy is also a strong melee jack if you are willing to dive into character models early. The only "bad" jacks cygnar has are the firefly and Triumph and they are more overpriced than bad. A few like Thorn, the hammersmith, grenadier, and cyclone are a bit specialized and don't fit in every list, but when things are set up for them to work, they work well.

Ranged units are more abundant than other factions so you'll get your pick of them. Gun mages are evasive and mobile trick shooters with low power and good accuracy. Long gunners are a long-ranged static gunline. Rangers are slippery skirmishers that rush forward to make the enemy less evasive for the rest of your army, while both flavors of trenchers are combined arms units that mix a lot of tricks in with bland melee and ranged attacks. The black 13th deserves special mention as a very strong elite group of three veteran gun mages.

Cygnar melee units are more about hitting fairly accurately than dealing or taking big damage -though stormblades are pretty darned powerful. Sword knights make a fine cheap tarpit unit but do little damage. Their officer is a great jack marshal but does little for his men. Stormblades make for a great offensive melee unit, but their rather short charge distance and frail stats make them a much better counterthreat than front line. Cygnar is actually lacking a really strong front line unit right now. Other units like precursor knights and stormguard are middle of the road between low cost and good offense.

You may want to take a look at nyss hunters and forge guard for mercenary units that work well with cygnar. You might also enjoy boomhowler's trollkin mercenaries if you can stomach those filthy trollkin joining your patriots in battle.

Well i've started building my force. I have Haley and a Senitel jack so far. Next pay day i'll be ordering a cyclone and a 13th black mage unit. It's a start anyway


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh and some Long gunners as well