Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Watched a video over at Beasts of War an it gave me an idea, Blood Claws are one of the few marine units that can go over 10 guys in a squad. Up until now their WS an BS made they undesirable but with a Rune Priest with divination they suddenly got good.

CCS w/ Lascannon, Vox, Camo Cloaks an Astropath 130pts

10x Veterans w/ 3x Sniper Rifles, Vox, Forward Sentries an Lascannon 140pts
10x Veterans w/ 3x Melta Guns

Vendetta 130pts
Vendetta 130pts

Demolisher w/ HM Lascannon 180pts
Demolisher w/ HM Lascannon 180pts

Rune Priest w/ Hurricane an Jaws (subbed for divination)
Rune Priest w/ Lightning an Jaws (subbed for divination)

3x Wolf Guard w/ 2 Combi Plasma an 3 Power Axe 99pts

15x Blood Claws w/ Plasma Gun an Power Axe 240pts
15x Blood Claws w/ Plasma Gun an Power Axe 240pts

6x Long Fangs w/ 5x Missile Launchers

The Rune Priests and Power Axe WG join the 2 Blood Claw Units lead the assault with the Demolishers while the Long Fangs, Sniper Vets and CCS stay back in cover sniping away. The Melta Vets go into one of the Vendettas for a late game objective grab. Still have almost 100 points to play with considering dropping the cloaks on the vets an CCS an bring a Skyshield landing pad to give a 4+ invuln save to the Long Fangs, CCS, an Sniper vets an then add something else to get to 1999. I like the huge footslogging Blood Claw unit. They can pump out an insane amount of attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No one has any thought on this?

I don't see a point to having the lascannons on the demolishers. They can only snap fire if you fire your cannon. Essentially wasting 30 pts. The vox is also not doing much help that saves another 10 pts. Forward Sentries is a lot of points and you don't get much for it.

I would use these points to put your vets in chimeras. Without chimeras they are pretty weak as they are easy to take out and have a tough time moving around especially getting into melta range.

 skycapt44 wrote:
I don't see a point to having the lascannons on the demolishers. They can only snap fire if you fire your cannon. Essentially wasting 30 pts. The vox is also not doing much help that saves another 10 pts. Forward Sentries is a lot of points and you don't get much for it.

I would use these points to put your vets in chimeras. Without chimeras they are pretty weak as they are easy to take out and have a tough time moving around especially getting into melta range.

Actually I like the Lascannons because it gives the demolishers a long range option until the cannon is in range, with only a 24" range and only being able to move 6" a turn I feel like it needs that long range gun.

If you are able to get the vets into a nice chunky ruin they are sitting on a 3+ cover save, but like I said I am considering switching to a Landing Pad for a 4+ invuln in my last game a helldrake zoomed over my sniper vets an cooked them with its template weapon.

The melta vets like I said also go into one of the Vendettas, I don't like light vehicles as much anymore because they give up First Blood to often.

I'm going to be the first person to say it...

Blood claws are garbage.
Grey Hunters are better, no question about it. One extra attack on the charge doesn't make up for BS4 bolters/plasmas/meltas.

Who charges with space wolves anyway?

Why Six Longfangs? With two Vendettas out and about and an Astropath on the field, the Longfangs seem out of place.

The melta vets like I said also go into one of the Vendettas, I don't like light vehicles as much anymore because they give up First Blood to often.

If you're worried about First Blood, I wouldn't field a Company Command Squad without a Chimera...

 Griddlelol wrote:
I'm going to be the first person to say it...

Blood claws are garbage.
Grey Hunters are better, no question about it. One extra attack on the charge doesn't make up for BS4 bolters/plasmas/meltas.

Who charges with space wolves anyway?

Correction they were garbage, an in a 15 man squad they can take meltas and plasmas anyway. With a Rune priest attached you don'treally need to worry about that bs3 anymore an now much fire is the enemy going to have to put on them to take out a 17 man squad in power armour. Lets look at the numbers...

On the charge you get 54 normal attacks and 10 ap2 str 5 hits all with rerolls who wouldn't want to charge with that. An if a few die oh well, nothing is going to survive that many attacks.

Grey Hunters are good no question still one of the best troops in the game, but having a 15 man squad more than balances it out. An I charge with space wolves, I cringe every time I see one of these cookie cutter grey hunter/rune priest/long fang spam lists all the frikin time have some imagination people.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KplKeegan wrote:
Why Six Longfangs? With two Vendettas out and about and an Astropath on the field, the Longfangs seem out of place.

The melta vets like I said also go into one of the Vendettas, I don't like light vehicles as much anymore because they give up First Blood to often.

If you're worried about First Blood, I wouldn't field a Company Command Squad without a Chimera...

You put em in cover an make the enemy waste shots trying to kill 6 guys. Would much rather take my chance with that surviving that a lone chimera.

As for the Long Fangs well they are a cheap heavy squad an before the Rune Priest sets off with the Blood Claws he can buff them with prescience. Also in my last game with an astropath on the field I failed to get one of my vendettas in until turn 4 kinda pissed me off.

You act like you're going to get all those attacks. People won't ignore 30 power armored dudes running at them. Without a transport I might add. With all the AP2 and AP3 around they'll be shot up fast which really hurts your theory of them getting 54 normal attacks.
There's a reason MSU is such a good tactic - you can't shoot them all. With 2 big squads of 15 guys, you're just asking them to be shot up. Sorry it just won't work like you think and will lead to a lot of dead space wolves.

Taking plasma on blood claws is laughable. Why on earth would you take a rapid fire weapon on something you intend to charge with? It's either wasted since then you can't run, or it's wasting their charge. Melta, understandable, but weaker than GHs.

I might be wrong here, but 3 wolf guard is illegal unless you intend to put one on the Long Fangs.

You're also lacking ranged fire-power. This really helps your opponent lay down some damage without you responding on turn one and (possibly turn two if you get unlucky with the astropath although that's never happened to me).

 Griddlelol wrote:
You act like you're going to get all those attacks. People won't ignore 30 power armored dudes running at them. Without a transport I might add. With all the AP2 and AP3 around they'll be shot up fast which really hurts your theory of them getting 54 normal attacks.
There's a reason MSU is such a good tactic - you can't shoot them all. With 2 big squads of 15 guys, you're just asking them to be shot up. Sorry it just won't work like you think and will lead to a lot of dead space wolves.

Taking plasma on blood claws is laughable. Why on earth would you take a rapid fire weapon on something you intend to charge with? It's either wasted since then you can't run, or it's wasting their charge. Melta, understandable, but weaker than GHs.

I might be wrong here, but 3 wolf guard is illegal unless you intend to put one on the Long Fangs.

You're also lacking ranged fire-power. This really helps your opponent lay down some damage without you responding on turn one and (possibly turn two if you get unlucky with the astropath although that's never happened to me).

Well the laughable comment was kinda rude. Ya wanna know why I chose plasma? Because I don't have any guys with flamers and I like to keep as close to wysiwyg as I can. Yes plasma isn't as great but I like the range if I need it. For the sake of argument I will make them flamers. Also I don't plan on having the Demolishers clearing trees they will stick close with the Blood Claws an if need be the Rune Priest can buff the cannon and there you go, who wouldn't like a Str10 Ap2 large blast coming down where they want it?

Lacking ranged fire power? First turn I have 4 lascannons, 3 sniper rifles, and 5 missile launchers available to me. I wouldn't call that a lack of ranged fire power. Yes they might take some fire if they win the roll, but no way is it all coming down on turn 1.

How many armies have that much massed Ap2 and Ap3 fire? Guard? If i go up against Guard yes I am going to have a hard time dealing with Battle Cannons, Melta Vets, and Vendettas but what army isn't going to have a problem with that kind of firepower? Can Blood Angels or Grey Knights put out that kind of Ap2/3 fire? How about Orcs or Eldar?

I

valace2 wrote:


Well the laughable comment was kinda rude. Ya wanna know why I chose plasma? Because I don't have any guys with flamers and I like to keep as close to wysiwyg as I can. Yes plasma isn't as great but I like the range if I need it. For the sake of argument I will make them flamers. Also I don't plan on having the Demolishers clearing trees they will stick close with the Blood Claws an if need be the Rune Priest can buff the cannon and there you go, who wouldn't like a Str10 Ap2 large blast coming down where they want it?

Lacking ranged fire power? First turn I have 4 lascannons, 3 sniper rifles, and 5 missile launchers available to me. I wouldn't call that a lack of ranged fire power. Yes they might take some fire if they win the roll, but no way is it all coming down on turn 1.

How many armies have that much massed Ap2 and Ap3 fire? Guard? If i go up against Guard yes I am going to have a hard time dealing with Battle Cannons, Melta Vets, and Vendettas but what army isn't going to have a problem with that kind of firepower? Can Blood Angels or Grey Knights put out that kind of Ap2/3 fire? How about Orcs or Eldar?

You're quite right and I apologise. Was not meant to be insulting.

The rune priest with the demolishers is not something I'm arguing against, it is an excellent tactic. My point is that blood claws just aren't as good as grey hunters.

Almost every army can mass Ap2 and Ap3. CSM have had a resurgence due to the the codex, and with a flier that can put an ap3 template wounding on 2s, or 3x str:8 plasma blasts from the walker. GK have plenty of ap2 in the form of rending or inquisitorial henchmen. BA has no problem with it either, just like C:SM. Orcs less so, but they make up for that with volume.

On your ranged fire-power: Maybe I'm a minority here, but 4 LC and 5 ML doesn't sound like a lot. Some of those will have to hit targets they don't want to. I did see what you had, but there's no mid-range, which limits your targets, especially as you only have 2 search-lights.