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Master of Deception allows you to nominate d3 units in your army to gain Infiltrate.

The rulebook states that a unit with Infiltrate joined by an IC that doesn't have it can not Infiltrate.

However, it makes no mention that an IC with Infiltrate can't use it if he is with a unit that doesn't have it.

It also specifies that a unit with "one or more models" with Infiltrate benefits from it.

So, the final question/clarification is:

If your Warlord Trait is Master of Deception, can you nominate an IC (which is a unit) to gain Infiltrate, then declare them to be joining a unit without Infiltrate, thus allowing the unit to Infiltrate as well?

Yes.

Great way to make units of infiltrating T6 chaos spawn.

I hadn't even thought of the need to use it with Spawn. I was mostly concerned with getting around the Infiltrate rule restriction itself.

Yes this does work, it is one of the wonderful bits of the codex that borders on cheese.

Yes, or you just nominate the unit after the IC has joined it and become a member of the unit for all rules purposes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kevlar wrote:
Yes.

Great way to make units of infiltrating T6 chaos spawn.

Only if you cheat
Reread page 28, Master of Deception, and the unit type of Spawn. Hint: they arent Infantry

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes, or you just nominate the unit after the IC has joined it and become a member of the unit for all rules purposes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kevlar wrote:
Yes.

Great way to make units of infiltrating T6 chaos spawn.

Only if you cheat
Reread page 28, Master of Deception, and the unit type of Spawn. Hint: they arent Infantry

The idea was to give infiltrate to an IC who then joins the spawn and gives infiltrate to them.

 edbradders wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes, or you just nominate the unit after the IC has joined it and become a member of the unit for all rules purposes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kevlar wrote:
Yes.

Great way to make units of infiltrating T6 chaos spawn.

Only if you cheat
Reread page 28, Master of Deception, and the unit type of Spawn. Hint: they arent Infantry

The idea was to give infiltrate to an IC who then joins the spawn and gives infiltrate to them.

Winner winner chicken dinner!

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes, or you just nominate the unit after the IC has joined it and become a member of the unit for all rules purposes.

Do you nominate after this can happen, or before? I had thought it was during the Warlord Trait part of game setup.

somerandomdude wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes, or you just nominate the unit after the IC has joined it and become a member of the unit for all rules purposes.

Do you nominate after this can happen, or before? I had thought it was during the Warlord Trait part of game setup.

You nominate your infiltrating units before deployment. The character can choose to deploy with a unit during deployment.

somerandomdude wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes, or you just nominate the unit after the IC has joined it and become a member of the unit for all rules purposes.

Do you nominate after this can happen, or before? I had thought it was during the Warlord Trait part of game setup.

Warlord comes before Deployment/Declaring anyway

 Lobukia wrote:

somerandomdude wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes, or you just nominate the unit after the IC has joined it and become a member of the unit for all rules purposes.

Do you nominate after this can happen, or before? I had thought it was during the Warlord Trait part of game setup.

Warlord comes before Deployment/Declaring anyway

Right, that was my point.

Nos, I believe you are mistaken. Since you nominate the units before deployment, and an IC doesn't join a unit until during deployment, you can not do it your way.

And, since you can not have a unit of Infiltrators joined by a non-infiltrating IC still benefit from the rule, there are only two ways to get a unit + IC to benefit from MAster of Deception:

A) Nominate both the IC and the unit, assuming you roll high enough.
B) Nominate the IC, who satisfies the "one or more models" requirement of the Infiltrator rule, and allows the unit to benefit when you declare them to be joined during Deployment.

Since B uses fewer resources and requires less luck than A, B is the logical choice. I wanted to confirm the way I was reading this with others, as some seem to believe you can not have an IC and unit benefit from a rule (which, if they do it by nominating the unit alone, that is true).

Fair enough - i missed the "before deployment" part.

Forgot they have altered Infiltrate to allow an IC with infiltrate to make a unit infiltrate...

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Fair enough - i missed the "before deployment" part.

Forgot they have altered Infiltrate to allow an IC with infiltrate to make a unit infiltrate...

It does seem a little too good to be true. I wouldn't be surprised if they FAQ that out. With the CSM power it seems a bit more than they intended.

What are your guys thoughts on Infiltrating Terminators in a Land Raider? I read the idea on another forum as they were talking about that the dedicated transport (land raider in this case) also benefits from Infiltrate if the unit is deployed in it.

Sounds like a good case for a "turn 1" assault if you go 2nd, as you can't assault if you go first.

somerandomdude wrote:
I hadn't even thought of the need to use it with Spawn. I was mostly concerned with getting around the Infiltrate rule restriction itself.

It doesnt state the IC can gain USR Infiltrate just that D3 infantry units can infiltrate.

I believe it's worded this way so you cannot infiltrate things like beasts, an IC with another unit, etc

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

somerandomdude wrote:
I hadn't even thought of the need to use it with Spawn. I was mostly concerned with getting around the Infiltrate rule restriction itself.

It doesnt state the IC can gain USR Infiltrate just that D3 infantry units can infiltrate.

I believe it's worded this way so you cannot infiltrate things like beasts, an IC with another unit, etc

You must be reading the summary. Try reading the full rule on p.28.

Kevlar wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

somerandomdude wrote:
I hadn't even thought of the need to use it with Spawn. I was mostly concerned with getting around the Infiltrate rule restriction itself.

It doesnt state the IC can gain USR Infiltrate just that D3 infantry units can infiltrate.

I believe it's worded this way so you cannot infiltrate things like beasts, an IC with another unit, etc

You must be reading the summary. Try reading the full rule on p.28.

I really hate this book ... why in the hell couldn't they add that 1 important sentence to the spot that's easy to find.

So I retract my arguement.