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So I'm pretty much assured in my mind that using BT blob squads and running across the table is fairly suicidal; I did want to take a crack at a shooty BT list for 6th edition and this is what I came up with

HQ Commander, Marshal = 125
Terminator armor, power weapon/stormbolter

HQ Commander, Marshal = 135
Terminator armor, powerfist/stormbolter

HQ Emperor’s Champion = 110
Vow: Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch

(DA)HQ Belial = 130
Sword of silence/stormbolter

(DA) Troop Deathwing Terminator x5 = 290
Cyclone Missile Launcher, Apothecary, Company Banner

(6x)Troop Crusader Squad Initiate x5 = 95
lascannon

(3x)Elite Dreadnought = 165
Twin-linked lascannon/missile launcher, venerable, tank hunter

Heavy Predator Annihilator = 145
TL lascannon, lascannon sponsons

= 2000

Now basically the 6 squads of lascannons are just there to hold objectives/kill tanks/be annoying. The whole army benefits from a 6+/5++ ignoring psychic power (even the vehicles). I think overall it has a nice capacity to take down enemy armor and fliers. Now the inclusion of the deathwing allies was an interesting idea I had (I'd give the squad better gear (especially belial) but right now these are the only termies I have, I'll do more th/ss when I get them) to attach the marshals to the squad, give it an apothecary via belial and drop down 1st turn near the enemy. This will force the enemy to deal with the 8 man doomsquad that just dropped next to them and alleviate pressure off of the lascannons in the back field; the nice thing is that abhor the witch will effect belial's unit due to the marshals attached to it, the marshals as I said get to benefit from the deathwing assault and belial's unit also gets to benefit from righteous zeal. What do you guys think? Worth giving it a try?

The idea of attaching a HQ to the squad sounds fine-though I would do a chaplain, and not a marshal to attach to belial's squad. Also, IIRC you can only have 1 ven dread per detachment for BT

crap you're right about the venerable upgrade; that really changes things up for me... You're probably right about the chaplain thing too; better to reroll hits on the charge.

Hitting flyers is always going to be an issue with Black templars. If going for a gunline, I would bring plenty of typhoons. I appreciate you have loaded up on TL lascannons to hit flyers but actually the number of missiles tyhoons have make up for not being TL.

Also double CML tank hunters are awesome.

I do feel deathwing can fit in nicely with black templars, but in a pure infantry list. They are going to be really good at going out at grabbing objectives which is what you need. The only issue is they are not adding any antiflyer which is what you probably want from an ally.

This would be an interesting list, although I feel that "Accept Any Challenge" is still the better vow, it makes for a sickening amount of attacks on the charge.

With the points you save from downgrading your Dreads to standard (instead of venerable), I would look at bringing the Chaplain as mentioned, you'll get the best of both world (Ld 10 rites of battle with the Marshall and rerolls to hit with the MoS)

Also, if you can squeeze it in, I would try to slap on the adamantine mantle on said chaplain for Eternal Warrior goodness.

I would reccomend a Chaplain as well. The Marshal will give you that 10 LD for the Templars.

Also look at a BT command squad. 2 assault cannons, tank hunters, SGT, plus 1 standard terminator. 4 terminators total, plus the marshal in termie armor. Its cheap, and effective.

Typhoons are great. 70 points for them (with heavy bolter)

Also, vindicators with PotMS, move 12" shoot 24" for a 36" range. Great combo.



Also the EC is not an offical "HQ" any more. He does not chew up that HQ slot.

one problem I noted bringing a chaplain is that he would not give rerolls to belial or the deathwing in close combat as it specifically states that it only effects black templar units whereas the banner in belial's squad says it effects any attached characters. So I dont think adding a chaplain really bring that much to the table.

I know the emperor's champion doesn't take up the slot I just listed him as an HQ because that's technically what he is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or would the chaplain effect the squad because of being a battle brother?

I would have to read the codex. I would be in the rules saying "all black templar units", or "all friendly units".

Yeah, it depends on the rules for the chaplain. Otherwise it wouldnt pay to take him really.....

Sadly the chaplain entry does say that rerolls are allowed for unit of BTs he has joined (not "any units he has joined")... And it's not faq'd.

Regardless of the codex entry, I thought it is stated in the rulebook that while allies are allowed, an allies chapter specific benefit could not be used on an allied chapter.

i.e. I was considering using BA and DA together but it is my understanding that I cannot use sang priests to bolster my DA Allies.

Well the way I read it they count as being friendly units and not parts of the main army, so for example a power that says "all units within 6" receive a 5+ invulnerable save" would effect both the main army and ally, whereas something like a chaplain would give both the main army and ally the benefit of fearless but only the army of his codex would benefit from rerolls to hit; unfortunate but RAW.

It tends not to be hard to work out through FAQs and whether the allies are treated as friendly units.

Black templars are worded explicitly so they do not carry the skills across. Though skills like fearless will carry across.

Black Templar 2k.

(2x) HQ Commander, Castellan = 123
Terminator armor, powerfist/stormbolter, tank hunter

(2x) HQ Sword Brethren Terminator Command Squad x4 = 222
Cyclone missile launcher x2, tank hunters

HQ Emperor’s Champion = 110
Vow: Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch

(6x) Troop Crusader Squad Initiate x5 = 95
lascannon

Elite Dreadnought = 165
Twin-linked lascannon/missile launcher, venerable, tank hunter

(2x) Elite Dreadnought = 135
Twin-linked lascannon/missile launcher

Heavy Predator Annihilator = 145
TL lascannon, lascannon sponsons

Fortification: Aegis Defense Line = 50

= 2000

So I think I've made this the best damned list I possibly could! In fact I'm down right excited about it. So basically I've changed my strategy to a complete gunline. 9 lascannons, 3 TL lascannons (one of them tank hunter), and 8 tank hunter missiles will make any opponent with armor a little nervous, especially when coupled with the durability of space marine and terminator armor hiding behind an aegis defense line. The nice thing about this list compared to the last is that the vehicles are a bit more durable with a 4+ cover save, also allowing me to save points on smoke launchers (I do love black templar vehicles because you can opt to leave the bells and whistles at home and be cheaper than the other codices). I may have some trouble with objective games, but I think this list is a little better against horde armies as my friend pointed out due to the frag missiles I have the option of shooting.

So what do you guys think? Much improved or lackluster?

I am not sure that would be the best against a hoard army... if you have 150+ orks coming at you, with 8 missles, and 12 las cannons? I feel like the orks would be on top of you rather quick. Now if they were mounted up in trucks... that would be different. Black Templars, sadly, seem to be stronger in shooting then they are actually in assault.

I mean its a sweet list, I would look at assault cannons on the command squad tho. If you do TH with A.cannons, its better then CML. 3 srt7 shots, with the chace of rending. compared to 2 str 8 shots.

no i do agree, it's not a very good anti-horde army and would probably do miserably against orks (unless its killakan or mech orks in which case it might do fine) I was merely stating that the 8 frag rockets is far more than I had from the first list in the way of anti-horde. I see where you're going with the assault cannons too but I wanted to hang the termies back and atleast offer some melee protection against melee units and rockets have a much longer range.

So I'm thinking about one last change because atm the emperor's champion is kinda lame just standing there so I wanted to give him a toy to play with. Basically if you drop venerable and tank hunter off the dreadnought, and change 1 cyclone missile launcher to an assault cannon in one of the command squads then you can add an icarus lascannon and still come out to 2k exactly. I like this idea because it let's an otherwise useless model have a gun, and it lets me have another lascannon to go with the overall theme and one that just happens to be good at killing fliers. Think its worth it?