Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

HQ: 115

Company Command Squad (Company Commander, Master of Ordnance, 4 Veterans – Regimental Standard, Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 115 (Attached to a Troop Platoon)

Elites: 65

Guardsman Marbo - 65

Troops: 1305

Platoon Command Squad (1 Platoon Commander, 1 Commissar, 4 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 85

Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70

Platoon Command Squad (1 Platoon Commander, 1 Commissar, 4 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 85

Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad ( Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70

Platoon Command Squad (1 Platoon Commander, 1 Commissar, 4 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 85

Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70

Heavy Support: 510

Leman Russ Battle Tank (Heavy Bolter Sponsors) – 170
Leman Russ Battle Tank (Heavy Bolter Sponsors) – 170
Leman Russ Battle Tank (Heavy Bolter Sponsors) – 170

Total Points – 1995

The theme of this list originally started out as a massive blob of guards with as many power weapons / autocannons as possible. After adding the Master of Ordnance, 3 Leman Russes, and Guardsman Marbo I feel that it would do fairly well against all comers. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?
All of the guardsmen are going to be cadian torso – arms / lasguns – legs with woodelf hooded heads / cloaks. Which I think should look cool after they are finished – camo cloaks and tank patterns will also match.

Looks like a fun list (unless you want to move anywhere ), but personally I would remove the power weapons, and use meltas instead. Also, if you are playing each platoon as a blob, I'd stick the commissars in there instead. Just walk the platoon command squads up behind the blobs, nobody will even notice them with all the other targets on the board.

I think it'll be fun to play.

I would also agree, if your blobbing up the infantry squads you need to put the commissars in with the infantry squads. They wont do anything for your PCS. I also agree about the power weapons, maybe take some out and have some infantry squads hang back and blast your opponents units with special weapons. maybe get some plasma in there to deal with units with 2+armor. Looks like a fun list and I would love to run that many guardsmen. You lack anti air but that shouldnt matter with all the auto cannons you have.

Agree with the commissar-to-blob comments.
PWs are kind of unnecessary in this build, but can be a nice bonus. A little too expensive for my taste.
How do you intend to deal with AV14? You basically have 3 S8 templates who are happier shooting Power Armor wearing infantry and Marbo, and nothing else that can hurt them. I would recommend getting at least some of the following units: Meltavets in Chimeras, Vanquishers w/Pask and hull LC, Demolishers, Medusae, Vendettas, Devil Dogs, anything that can deal with AV14. At 2000 pts, you are probably going to see some if your opponent plays any army that can field it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: Forgot the MoO who can hurt AV14 but good luck hitting the vehicle with his barrage.

This is not a viable TAC list. You have literally nothing to take forward objectives except huge blobs of guardsmen which will have their threat effectively neutralised by moving (losing their heavy weapon shots). Only moving a max 12" per turn - and giving up all shooting and all assaulting to do this - will mean you'll struggle to reach objectives. Autocannons and massed lasguns won't kill enough to just blast your opponent off the board.

You have quite literally, no AP:2. Unless of course you have power axes. I'm not an advocate of power weapons in blobs as they can so easily be sniped out or completely neutralised by challenges. Your sergeants should be abusing this challenge rule, not succumbing to it. The ability of a 30 man blob to sacrifice 1 crappy sergeant for 3 rounds of combat is amazing. I even had a sergeant survive a round against Mephiston.

Why are there no special weapons in the blobs? Or for that matter, anywhere? That's massively reducing your ability yo kill anything.

Sponsons on Russes with ordnance are not worth their points. 20pts for snap shots is ridiculous, if you want weapon destroyed piece of mind, get a pintle mounted stubber.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but without adequate cover (which you haven't invested in as an ADL) this list will probably end up getting gunned down and running off the table.

 Griddlelol wrote:

Sponsons on Russes with ordnance are not worth their points. 20pts for snap shots is ridiculous, if you want weapon destroyed piece of mind, get a pintle mounted stubber.

Ordnance on vehicles doesn't restrict firing additional weapons anymore. Also Leman Russ are heavy so they can always fire everything at full BS and move 6.

But yeah the rest of what you said is legit. List isn't going to work as it is.

 Astelan wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

Sponsons on Russes with ordnance are not worth their points. 20pts for snap shots is ridiculous, if you want weapon destroyed piece of mind, get a pintle mounted stubber.

Ordnance on vehicles doesn't restrict firing additional weapons anymore. Also Leman Russ are heavy so they can always fire everything at full BS and move 6.

But yeah the rest of what you said is legit. List isn't going to work as it is.

The BRB takes care of that. If you fire an Ordnance weapon, you have to snapfire with all other weapons. So unfortunately,Griddlelol is right.

Hedkrakka wrote:

 Astelan wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

Sponsons on Russes with ordnance are not worth their points. 20pts for snap shots is ridiculous, if you want weapon destroyed piece of mind, get a pintle mounted stubber.

Ordnance on vehicles doesn't restrict firing additional weapons anymore. Also Leman Russ are heavy so they can always fire everything at full BS and move 6.

But yeah the rest of what you said is legit. List isn't going to work as it is.

The BRB takes care of that. If you fire an Ordnance weapon, you have to snapfire with all other weapons. So unfortunately,Griddlelol is right.

Ok my bad the ordnance entry on page 51 doesn't say anything about that. But yeah it's in the vehicle section on page 71 hurr. A Leman Russ is still fine to shoot everything at max BS though. FAQ made them Heavy Vehicles (treated as having remained stationary).

Yeah, they "remain stationary" if they move but Ordnance weapons still make you snap fire even if you remained stationary. So no full BS for a LRBT or Demolisher.

Actually yeah that's true. Waste of points on the bolters then lol.

I only use autocannons/punisher on my leman russ so it's never mattered.

Griddle lol makes valid points and i will not repeat them but you should seriously take his advice, the only way i see blob squads doing anything nowadays is Conscripts with send in the next wave camping on home objectives

Possibly scrap a whole platoon and try getting two vendettas in there. As 6th started i didnt want to believe that flyers were required in most list but my local gaming store where i play, everyone decided to get some form of flyer. So my one vendetta turned into 2. vendettas are also great at hunting tanks with the 3 twin linked lascannons.

More anti tank is needed, possibly squadron two of the russes and try getting an executioner with plasma sponsons to add ap2 fire support and add a manticore to boost anti horde and tank control.

As most others mentioned you may want to ditch most of those axes and get some guns like some plasma guns.

 Somedude593 wrote:
Griddle lol makes valid points and i will not repeat them but you should seriously take his advice, the only way i see blob squads doing anything nowadays is Conscripts with send in the next wave camping on home objectives

A bit prejudiced IMO. Blobs of Guardsmen work just fine-if you support them well. Conscripts are too expensive and even more ridiculously expensive with SitNW. They need an IC or some kind of Ld boost to even stay on the board if you don't purchase Chenkov+SitNW, which, again, adds more points. Essentially they're just one point cheaper than Guardsmen but can't take ANY special or heavy weapons, can't take Sergeants to keep enemy characters out of combat for a turn, and have abysmal WS and BS. And you need at least two squads of Guardsmen to get them anyway. I don't care if they're the second cheapest unit in the game per model, their true cost is high and in terms of performance/cost ratio they're certainly not among the best in the codex.

I don't agree that blobs are useless. I expect this comes from people who have had one game with bad luck playing them, or has played against them and had one game of good luck. I run a list with two blobs acting as human shields for 15 heavy weapon teams, and the blobs usually ends up taking out whole squads of deep striking terminators when I play against space marines who use that. In my experience, the only way to reliably take out 2+ armor save is massed lasguns. Two or three squad-blobs FRFSRFing into a unit of terminators, will put a serious dent into them.

Against a deathwing army (with two cestus assault rams) in a tournament a month ago, I used all my heavy weapons to take out the fliers and only concentrated my blobs on the terminators, and by the end of the game he had 3 single termies left + 1 HP on a single assault ram. My list is by no means a hard competitive list, but it's fun to play, and it does provide a decent fight against anything you care to throw at it.

Whereswaldo wrote:
HQ: 115

Company Command Squad (Company Commander, Master of Ordnance, 4 Veterans – Regimental Standard, Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 115 (Attached to a Troop Platoon) [color=orange]A CCS may not join a troop platoon. MoO Standard/PW I feel is wasted on them, possibly think about taking Primaris Psykers

Elites: 65

Guardsman Marbo - 65 was ok in 5th might be decent in 6th easy KP either way

Troops: 1305

Platoon Command Squad (1 Platoon Commander, 1 Commissar, 4 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 85

Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
not so much power weapons, but axes. If not allying than you need a commisar
Platoon Command Squad (1 Platoon Commander, 1 Commissar, 4 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 85

Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad ( Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
same as above platoon
Platoon Command Squad (1 Platoon Commander, 1 Commissar, 4 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 85

Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman – Power Weapon, Autocannon) – 70
same as above platoon
Heavy Support: 510

Leman Russ Battle Tank (Heavy Bolter Sponsors) – 170
Leman Russ Battle Tank (Heavy Bolter Sponsors) – 170
Leman Russ Battle Tank (Heavy Bolter Sponsors) – 170
I would drop these in favor of 3 Vendettas, adding some much needed Higher str weapons to the table, you can also drop a tid more and get some Special weapons to deploy inside of them
Total Points – 1995

The theme of this list originally started out as a massive blob of guards with as many power weapons / autocannons as possible. After adding the Master of Ordnance, 3 Leman Russes, and Guardsman Marbo I feel that it would do fairly well against all comers. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?
All of the guardsmen are going to be cadian torso – arms / lasguns – legs with woodelf hooded heads / cloaks. Which I think should look cool after they are finished – camo cloaks and tank patterns will also match.

Been playing Guard for years, won plenty of tourneys with them. Favorite things Blobs, Vendettas, Manticores, try to include these as they are amazing

Thanks for the advice so far, When I wrote it up I meant for the commissars to be in the blobs my bad and the power weapons were meant to be power axes .... after hearing everything I am going to swap alot of things around and see how it works. I am going to try to stay foot slogging but have a mix b/t power axe / flamer platoons and a few autocannon platoons to sit on objectives in my deployment zone. Instead of having the huge 50 man platoons I am thinking about 20 man ones so I still have enough units to capture and hold objectives (I still want to keep a massive amount of infantry on the board). - Still trying to decide on what to take for AV 14 threats but I am going to go through and retool the list.

Whereswaldo wrote:
Thanks for the advice so far, When I wrote it up I meant for the commissars to be in the blobs my bad and the power weapons were meant to be power axes .... after hearing everything I am going to swap alot of things around and see how it works. I am going to try to stay foot slogging but have a mix b/t power axe / flamer platoons and a few autocannon platoons to sit on objectives in my deployment zone. Instead of having the huge 50 man platoons I am thinking about 20 man ones so I still have enough units to capture and hold objectives (I still want to keep a massive amount of infantry on the board). - Still trying to decide on what to take for AV 14 threats but I am going to go through and retool the list.

Good idea to separate CC and ranged, but keep this in mind-20 man squads make Commissars pretty expensive. Two Commissars per platoon will mount to a significant amount of cost, which will be spent on single wound T3 characters. I would keep them as a large blob and use the heavy weapon-armed squads in 20-man units so that they can shoot different things
Regimental Standard is cheaper than a Commissar and also affects units which can't take Commissars, while the Commissar gives Stubborn and extra Ld, most useful in a CC situation. Either is workable-but I would suggest not getting both at the same time.
Marbo is incredible fun, and remember that while he is an easy KP/VP, most missions are objective-based anyway. I love the epic awesomeness of him coming in right under the enemy's nose, killing things twice his point cost and then dying heroically. He's Catachan, so he'll look pretty different in your full Cadian army, so you may want to throw some Catachans in there too But he'll cause some havoc either way.

Leman russes have been faq'd. They are now heavy vehicles. They can move and fire all weapons.

I would personally Drop all of the power weapons ( guard don't really need em , we won't live long enough to use em XD) you get back 150 points Enough for another Russ ! but ipersonally would Suggest a Tech preist with Gun Servitors , either Plasma cannons or Heavy Bolters because Seviter Arms now count as No Armor Saves Allowed ! .... But aside from that it seems like a very solid list , but ... you not going to be going any where fast

Russes got an FAQ where they are now heavy so they can fire everything but only move 6inches...BUT since the battle tank and demolisher are ordnance they have to snap fire everything else if they fire the big main gun. so you could save some point by dropping the sponsons.

Ordnance turret weapons still mean that they can only shoot the other things at snapshot though.

Yeah, but sponsons are way too expensive for snap shots, and blasts and templates can't snap fire anyway.

Ok so thinking a little bit about it this is what I have come up with .... I want to keep the army as troop heavy as possible but still be competitive.

HQ:
?

Elites: 250
Guardsman Marbo – 65
Storm Trooper Squad (Storm Trooper Sergent, 9 Storm Troopers, 2 Meltaguns) - 185

Troops: 1010

Platoon Command Squad (1 Platoon Commander, 4 Guardsman, Autocannon) – 40 Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman, Autocannon) – 70

Platoon Command Squad (1 Platoon Commander, 4 Guardsman, Autocannon) – 40 Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman, Autocannon) – 70
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman, Autocannon) – 70

Veteran Squad (Veteran Sergeant, 9 Veterans, 3 Melta Guns, Chimera) – 155

Veteran Squad (Veteran Sergeant, 9 Veterans, 3 Melta Guns, Chimera) - 155

Veteran Squad (Veteran Sergeant, 9 Veterans, 3 Plasma Guns, Chimera) - 170

Veteran Squad (Veteran Sergeant, 9 Veterans, 3 Plasma Guns, Chimera) – 170

Fast Attack:
?

Heavy:
?
Total - 1260

The Platoons sit on objectives in my deployment while the melta vets / stormtroopers try to pop any armor - plasma vets go for anything ap 2 - lets say the list is going for 1500-2k based on this what would you to be added?
- I would like to keep marbo in there for flavor

I normally play space wolves and just starting up guard

Chimeras will never get to any sort of tank worth using meltas on.

For suicide storm troopers, 10 is too many. They get in, they melta a tank, they die. Spending points on 5 more is just 80 points spend on dead storm troopers.

Please put special weapons in the infantry squads. Even if it's just flamers for a D3 overwatch. It just drastically increases their effectiveness for a low points cost. Avoid grenade launchers. They're useless. Meltas are better, plasmas can be very good.

With that much infantry, I recommend a CCS. Those orders are just fantastic. Maybe put a lascannon on it. Get an ADL with a quad cannon to protect everything.

The PCS, these are awesome units when used in conjunction with vendettas or MRP valks. Put 3 flamers on the group, put them in a valk/vend. Dump them behind a small or squishy unit defending an objective and flame them off. If you're lucky you'll kill them and can just walk on to the objective, if you're not, a small squishy, cheap 45pt unit dies. It's pretty much a win-win since most people shoot those PCSs up anyway. Much more useful than 2 autocannon shots. It also means you can easily get line-breaker, and in KP games you don't need to expose them and so keep them from being an easy KP.

Fast attack: Vendettas are pretty much mandatory. Especially with your lack of anti-tank.

Heavy Support: Artillery is pretty awesome. It almost ignores cover due to the cover save being taken from the centre point of the blast. I'm starting to experiment with these to see which I prefer.

Manticores are great too, but you really need an ADL to protect them since AV12 doesn't last long out in the open.

If you want Russes: Executioners are amazing. Putting plasma cannon sponsons helps their output for a mere 40pts. I rarely have a list that doesn't take one. Vanilla Russes are decent for 150 points and help with AV:14 saturation. Just don't put sponsons on them. Exterminators are ok. I've had bad luck with them, but a snazzy 4TL autocannon shots and 9 HB shots a turn has potential. Or even put Multi-melta sponsons on it and charge it up field with your chimeras.

exactly what Griddlelol said...like everything i was gunna say but he beat me to it lol. I didnt read if you mentioned but what exactly do you play against a lot, as that could even help us more point you in the direction of what to use.

How about this?

HQ: 100

Company Command Squad (Company Commander, Officer of the Fleet, 4 Veterans, Lascannon) – 100

Elites: 170

Guardman Marbo – 65
Storm Trooper Squad (Storm Trooper Sergeant, 4 Storm Troopers, 2 Meltas) – 105

Troops: 1050

Platoon Command Squad (1 Platoon Commander, 4 Guardsman, 4 Flamers) – 50 {Attached to a Vendetta}
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman, Autocannon, Flamer) – 75
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman, Autocannon, Flamer) – 75

Platoon Command Squad (1 Platoon Commander, 4 Guardsman, 4 Flamers) – 50 {Attached to a Vendetta}
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman, Autocannon, Flamer) – 75
Infantry Squad (Sergeant, 9 Guardsman, Autocannon, Flamer) – 75

Veteran Squad (Sergeant, 9 Veterans, 3 Melta Guns, Chimera) – 155
Veteran Squad (Sergeant, 9 Veterans, 3 Melta Guns, Chimera) – 155

Veteran Squad (Sergeant, 9 Veterans, 3 Plasma Guns, Chimera) – 170
Veteran Squad (Sergeant, 9 Veterans, 3 Plasma Guns, Chimera) – 170

Fast Attack: 260
Vendetta – 130
Vendetta – 130

Heavy: 230
Leman Russ Executioner (Plasma Sponsors) – 230

= 1810

For the last points I am thinking a aegis defense line or a vanilla leman russ and upgrading the platoons flamers to meltas or plasmas

Thanks for the advice so far, am I missing anything?